It's the lack of counter-hegemonic infrastructure, stupid!

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Nov 15, 2009 at 15:00


Systemic Lessons From The Rightwing Defunding Attack On ACORN

I'm working on an article about ACORN for Random Lengths News, for which I interviewed Nathan Henderson-James, currently ACORN's Director of Online Campaigns, which I also intended to present here at Open Left in some form.  I was particularly struck by the following brief part of the interview, where I ask about the difference between how the right defends its own, and how the left generally fails to--and certainly did fail when ACORN was attacked most recently.

Nathan specifically says that he's not speaking for ACORN, but simply offering his own personal views, which, nonetheless do come from someone who witnessed what happened from the inside.  And they accord 100% with my views, as someone who witneesed it from the outside.  But the importance of what he has to say goes far beyond the case of the recent attacks on ACORN.  In fact, they go right to the heart of one of the real reasons why single payer was excluded from consideration--a reason that has nothing to do with the supposed perfidy of everyone you can name and everything to do with the left's failure to organize itself for the true magnitude of the struggle we're engaged in.


OL: The natural thing that came to me was 'wait a minute, Blackwater kills people, and they're still getting hundreds of millions of dollars.  I really had to scratch my head over that.  And so what I'd like to ask you was, that sort of contrast between how you were savagely attacked, without even having hearings, and the way we have lawsuits, and people invoking state secrets, and all kinds of stuff with Blackwater, and what that says about the difference between the right and the left in terms of how they organize politically to protect their own.  Any comments about that?

Nathan Henderson-James:

From a progressive's political point of view I think what this-this is a a personal observation, not an organizational observation- This is my own personal, this is not an ACORN position--is that it really points out how the progressive movement is not a movement. It is a bunch of people who share a political vision for America, but do it from the feet of several independent organizations that do not have an infrastructure that allows them to communicate quickly with each other, and create ways so that they can function much more as if they wre part of  a unified movement, rather than a bunch of organizations that share a bunch of policy goals, but have a huge set of different methodologies for achieving those goals.

Paul Rosenberg :: It's the lack of counter-hegemonic infrastructure, stupid!
So what you see when ACORN starts to get attacked, the second round, and cleverly through sex, and prostitution scandal, a non-scandal, really, was the inability for people to think outside their own organizational self-interest, which I don't fault them for, to be very clear, at all. But it was not how do we stand up to these attacks, because it was about demobilizing key parts of the progressive coalition.  It was like, 'Oh my God, how do I not subject myself to the same treatment, so that I can continue to do my very important work.'  And it is very important, so I don't want to be devaluing anyone else's contribution, but I think that structurally, there was no ability for people to get together and call each other, and set up email chains and say, 'This is ridiculous.  ACORN needs, We need to stand with ACORN.  What's going on. What's the real scoop, blah, blah, blah.

And it's not that the conservative movement is open and based on democracy, but their infrastructure and their ability to talk to each other and their ability to coordinate, especially their biggest resources, you know, having a 24-hour news channel is very helpful, having that coordinate with other pieces, especially on messaging and talking points, gives them a whole set of capabilities and capacity that the left has not decided to invest any resources in.

The point Nathan is making is perfectly compatible with point I made in my diary series, "The Political Duality of Rep and Dem, a long elaboration centered on a simple duality:

    (A) Democrats are reality-based when it comes to policies, and totally out to lunch when it comes to winning elections, and politicking in general.

    (B) But Republicans are totally out to lunch when it comes to policies, and as reality-based as it gets when it comes to winning elections, and politicking in general.

Substitute "progressives" for "Democrats" and "conservatives" for "Republicans", and it remains equally valid, and fully congruent with the point Nathan makes.


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And if we need to organize big, we should fight for big (4.00 / 2)
In fact, they go right to the heart of one of the real reasons why single payer was excluded from consideration--a reason that has nothing to do with the supposed perfidy of everyone you can name and everything to do with the left's failure to organize itself for the true magnitude of the struggle we're engaged in.

This is how progressives have gotten locked into supporting the current phony health care bill, and then quibbling over the details.

I don't mean to imply in any way that the fight over abortion rollback in the bill is a minor quibble.  But this obscures the fact that the ENTIRE bill is a disaster, and therefore the only worthy response is to scrap the whole thing.  (I've elaborated on some of the reasons why in www.openleft.com/showComment.do?commentId=197648 if you're interested, and don't want to just repeat myself.)

Single payer cannot be fought for in the context of the current bill.  The entire framework of the bill is to deliver the uninsured public to the insurance companies, and no amendment can change this framework.  But to scrap the entire bill requires fighting for the framework that health care is a human right.  Period.  And that requires a frontal assault on the entire approach of the Obama administration.

So to build a counter-hegemonic infrastructure requires some sense of what that "counter-hegemony" would even be.  And fight for it.  The current health care bill could be used by progressives, but only by attacking it on the level of its fundamentals, making the case for why it should go down, and then using the smoking rubble that it will most likely end up in to assert something better.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


So What's Your Plan For The 2010 Elections? (0.00 / 0)
Say you help defeat the current bill. Then what?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Your question is a total non-sequitur (0.00 / 0)
Besides, the implication is that passing a bill that assaults abortion rights -- even if not as badly as Stupak -- will help Democrats in 2010?  A bill with an oppressive mandate will help Democrats in 2010?

In any event, I don't give a damn.  Should I reply by copying my post I reference above?

A bad bill is a bad bill.  It deserves to die.  You want to fight for progressive hegemony without paying the short-term price because the progressive establishment has lined up behind this junk?  

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


[ Parent ]
I'm Afriad You're Missing My Point (4.00 / 2)
You want to argue positions.  But this post isn't about positions.  It's meta- to that.  It's about the fact that we have no structural capacity to deal with differences on positions, along with much else that we can't deal with.

Now, I happen to agree with you far more than I disagree in terms of how I see the bill.

Where we differ is that I'm trying to game-plan where do we go from here?  And odious as the bill may be, I don't see its defeat leading to any sorts of desirable future states--even minimally so.  That's why I asked the question I did: In order to see if you could point out a possible future I had missed.

Now that I've clarified my meaning, can you do that?

This is not the ultimate point of my diary, but at least it will get you thinking along lines that can lead back toward the actual subject of my concern--which is building capacity to win the war.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Point taken (0.00 / 0)
As you know, I happen to agree with you far more than I disagree, as well.

But I don't see the bill's PASSAGE leading to any sorts of desirable future states, either.  Supporting the bill only defers addressing building the capacity to win the war, and corrupts us further.

I'm not calling for any great leap that will yield anything like quick success.  I'm not calling for any third party.  I'm not even calling for introducing any perfect or even decent legislation.

I'm very modest.  All I want is for progressives to let it be known that we can't be taken for granted.  Health care is the current battlefield, and so that's where this message can be delivered and where it can be heard.

Then we can have the discussion you rightly call for.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


[ Parent ]
So This Is About Putting Things Into Practice (0.00 / 0)
I'm very modest.  All I want is for progressives to let it be known that we can't be taken for granted.  Health care is the current battlefield, and so that's where this message can be delivered and where it can be heard.

I agree completely with the bolded part.  But I'm concerned that the message would almost certainly be muddled, rather than being heard.  Under the right conditions, I could agree with you.

But if I did, I'd feel obligated to have a much better idea of the potential way ahead than I presently have.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The right conditions are the conditions we have (0.00 / 0)
That's all there is, there ain't no more, said old Saint Pete as he fell on the floor.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

[ Parent ]
I don't agree with jeffroby (4.00 / 1)
But if I did, I'd say that we should be focusing on the next four decades (at least), and if temporary setbacks like losing in 2010 can help facilitate progressive governance in, say, 2020 and onwards, it's worth it.

Isn't that why the conservative movement has been successful--its constant focus on hegemony and cultural domination and the like, instead of a singleminded drive to win only the current news cycle and/or the next election?

The ultimate problem with this, of course, is that liberals/progressives tend to have empathy, and have trouble sacrificing, say, the people who the current health care bill would save, just in order to make a better life for those in the relatively distant future.  And given the horrendous things that would result from conservatives taking power again--especially the current batshit crazy teabag Republican party--it's no surprise that they're unwilling to make short-term sacrifices for long-term gains.  But sometimes they are necessary.

Again, I don't completely agree with this argument, at least when applied to the current situation...but I do think it's awfully powerful.


[ Parent ]
Made this response before I saw jeffroby's (0.00 / 0)
They're pretty similar, though.  Sorry, jeffroby. :/

[ Parent ]
It's One Thing To Say We Should Think Beyond 2010 (4.00 / 1)
It's quite another to actually think beyond 2010, rather than just using it as a slogan or an excuse.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Fair point (4.00 / 2)
It's almost impossible to predict the results of the 2010 elections right now, and that's with polls.  Predicting which actions will achieve some non-quantifiable result decades in the future is, to a large extent, an exercise in futility.

That said, we can try.  The reason I said I disagree with jeffroby is that I agree that, not only will scrapping the bill entirely cause a huge electoral defeat in 2010, but it will also most likely not have a better long-term influence than passing the damn thing and improving it later.  So I agree with you there.

So getting back to meta-positions and movement building...

The entirety of 2009, so far, seems to me to be one giant lesson to progressive groups generally: if you don't work together, this is what happens when you try to actually make legislation.  At least, that's the lesson I got from it.  But I get the feeling that a lot of people are still holding out that good things will happen "soon."  Maybe we really do have to wait until after 2010, where the Democrats will almost definitely lose their 60-seat Senate majority, and progressives can look back, see what complete control of government got them, and realize what that was: not much.  Then we can start asking ourselves why that is, and progressive groups generally might finally decide to start truly working together.

Either that, or steal the Religious Right strategy and take over the Democratic party starting at the local level and moving up.  I think the latter method would be much more effective, but will also take much longer and be much harder to bring into effect.  Both/and?


[ Parent ]
Yes (4.00 / 1)
steal the Religious Right strategy and take over the Democratic party starting at the local level and moving up.

Absolutely, and my endorsement of this idea is regardless of any other short or long term strategies that are considered. That is., this should definitely be done.

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel


[ Parent ]
Both/And (0.00 / 0)
It's my middle name!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I don`t know very much about it (0.00 / 0)
But it seems to me like the only way to do it is to...well, do it.  Gather some people up, go to a meeting of the local Democratic Party, and make it conform to our standards in terms of both policy and political strategy through force of numbers, enthusiasm, and good arguments.

You know, now that I think about it, I`m surprised this hasn`t been done yet.  The Religious Right took over the Republican Party through direct mail and meeting once a week in churches.  You`d think it`d be a lot easier when you have the internet to organize.

I won`t be able to participate physically until next June, but after the healthcare vote (which is sucking up most peoples` time for good reason right now), why don`t we (as in, internet progressives in general) honestly start trying to work on this?  Like...set up groups on mybarackobama, advertise on the major liberal political blogs, stuff like that.  Is there some complication here that I`m not seeing?


[ Parent ]
DFA (4.00 / 3)
Democracy for America advised us to do this back in early 2005.  Some of us are now in leadership within our local and state parties.  

One of the problems we're facing now is with OFA.  They talk about working with us, but don't seem to understand how to build coalitions.  They think and work only towards "the President's agenda."  (Piss-poor framing IMHO)  

Here's an example of what they do--Tonight is our local party monthly meeting and our agenda is a discussion of the upcoming legislative session with a couple of state representatives.  What does OFA do?  They schedule a phone-banking rapid response event that conflicts with the meeting.

As long as they don't understand the need to consult and plan with us, neither group will be successful.  They also don't seem to give a crap about local issues and candidates.  (Mabye because OFA hired mostly out-of-state field organizers??)  

Together we could be a powerful team, but it won't happen as long as this is the way they operate.


[ Parent ]
Everything I read (4.00 / 4)
says that it's not progressives on Congress, but dogs, who are most electorally vulnerable.

While I wouldn't want to lose either house completely, it's clear that the "more Dems no matter how right wing they are" strategy isn't going to accomplish change.

And it's clear that under these circumstances "60 votes" is worthless.

Anyway, I don't think it's in the bag that Dems will be able to sell this rotten bill as something good in 2010. The Reps will have no shame in slamming even the corporate giveaway core of it. (It's a testament to the incompetence of Obama and the Dem establishment the the Republicans of all people are going to campaign in 2010 as the populist party against the corporate-friendly Dems, and will do so with some plausibility. And all that right after a crash for which the Reps were mostly responsible. But Obama couldn't wait to take personal ownership of it. And now this corporatist health bill. Are Dems really going to be able to keep "mandates" out of the election issues?)

If it were up to me, I'd dump this bill and try again immediately, but with a health-care-as-a-human-right single payer platform. I'd try to conscript every Democrat into having to see it as a clear vote for or against the people going into the election.

(When I say "I", I just mean if I were some hypothetical billionaire obsessed with this issue. But I guess I mean if it were possible for the grassroots to come together and agree on a course of action. Which, as the OP says, is the big problem.)

http://attempter.wordpress.com


[ Parent ]
Sure (0.00 / 0)
I'm all for bumping off a few dogs.  And I'd be fine with this:

If it were up to me, I'd dump this bill and try again immediately, but with a health-care-as-a-human-right single payer platform.

But the question is, how do we do that?  I don't see how.  I'd love to be able to jump right to that point.  But it seems to me that we've got to learn to crawl before we can walk, much less fly.

Show me a plausible shortcut, and then we can talk about it.  But insist that we fly right now, or else!  And you just leave me shaking my head.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Easy - get your Republican friends on board! (0.00 / 0)
You've got lots of them, don't you?  :-)

Actually, what I wrote previously, here, implies that the bill won't be scrapped, but rather passed, ASAP. Only after that will the Republicans start making hay in a more credible way than "death panels", etc., and grabbing the populist spotlight (if they can - there are signs that the Republican bigwigs can't control the teabag/populist movement like the thought they could) And after that, the Democrats have a chance to atone for their sins by passing a bill that reforms the healthcare reform bill.

So, while not exactly what you had asked for, at least my suggestion carries the possibility of progressives showing that they were right, in the shortest possible time. Unfortunately for the Democrats, that will be by showing that they were corrupt/incompetent when it comes to healthcare, in the shortest possible time.

BTW, ito interesting diary subjects, a speculative one on what the effects of our creditors will be on subsequent healthcare legislation. Obama is looking at a 5% across the board cut, which he may well be forced to by China, etc. So, would Obama be more or less likely to attack controlling healthcare costs?

That depends on who he really is, doesn't it? Personally, he's proven to me to not be a very nice person, even if he has a pleasant personality. However, not being omnicient, I suppose there's still a chance he'll turn into an FDR.

435 Dem Primaries 2012
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[ Parent ]
That's Just The Point (0.00 / 0)
It's much easier to envision ways in which the Dems are forced to act to clean up their mess, and thus start moving us toward single-payer, than it is to envision how we start all over again, with all the foes newly empowered by defeating an effort lead by Obama himself.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Well, if the progressives aren't of the veal pen type... (4.00 / 1)
...they'd raise a stink, and a lot more people would know that Obamacare is not progressive. If, additionally, they had candidates at the ready, who were progressive, who would primary the Obamacare-loving corporatist Democrats, there would be a logical choice for the disaffected voters, other than the Republicans.

Apparently, most of the visible left institutions are of the veal pen variety, and there seems to be little organization on the part of non-veal-pen progressives. I don't actually know what the state of the 'resistance' is, even in the case of the PDA. (E.g., how many PDA-endorsed candidates are there who will definitely try to primary corporatist Dems? I don't know. They are going to go after Baucus when it's his turn, but there's no corporatist-Dem electoral hit list, even at the PDA).

IN OTHER WORDS, THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE EVEN A MINIMAL, ORGANIZED, VISIBLE EFFORT THAT DISAFFECTED VOTERS COULD LATCH ONTO, IN LARGE NUMBERS, TO CONSTRUCTIVELY DEAL WITH THEIR FRUSTRATIONS AT ELECTED DEMOCRATS WHO BETRAY THEIR BEST INTERESTS

Hence, some dismay is warranted!

It's my impression that there's a defeaning silence regarding 'Accountability Now'. When somebody does get the right idea, and then it (apparently) goes into limbo, and nobody even wants to talk about it, that is not cause for optimism. Note that there is not a single candidate mentioned on the 'Our Candidates' page. How lame is that? Apparently, Accountability Now can't even dig up a single protest candidate, who is willing to run - and lose - on a shoe-string. (You know, just to get the ball rolling.)

Let's put the shoe on the other foot, to see if we can understand this better.  Let's say the Ron Paulistas decide that they want to take over the Republican Party. OK, not all Republicans have libertarian leaning, so let's say that they have a more modest and realistic goal of placing libertarians into office in 25% of the current seats held by Republicans.

Well, of course they will need candidates willing to run, people who will be willing to raise money for their candidates, a grassroots organization which can use zeal and personal contacts to overcome the funding advantage of corporate Republicans.

If the Ron Paulistas do none of these things, why would anybody take any proclaimed aspirations of a 25% takeover of the Republican Party, seriously?.

OK, I think they are organizing to push a handful of candidates, including Ron Paul's son, Rand, but AFAIK there is nothing like a credible organization which can possibly take over even 25% of the Republican Party. Unless they have a list of candidates who represent their ideal, which number at least 12 (for the Senate) + 50 (for the House), then obviously they can't win 12 + 50 = 62 seats, even if they batted 1000. Mathematically, 5 << 62 ....

Whether anybody likes it or not, the US government is mostly sold out. Hence, citizens who lean to either the Democrats or Republicans have to essentially start from scratch, if they're serious about throwing off corporatist and bankster yokes. Rather than get depressed about that fact, wouldn't it be better to deal with it?

As a front-pager at OpenLeft, you are in a better position than most to catalyze such efforts. Correct?

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[ Parent ]
Consider a logical way to start from Zero, and go forward (0.00 / 0)
You recently addressed the issue of deciding which Democrats to target in primaries. (And good on you for taking up that issue. Please don't let the effort die!)

I made two suggestions: 1) guerilla candidates   and   2) a 2-sided contract

If the time frame for 2010 is too short to make serious challenges in many districts, progressives who are desparate for a way out of this mess may just give up until 2012. So, for the sake of argument, let's say that the netroots can only organize and fund a single, serious, primary challenge.

What I'd like to suggest, aside from those two prior suggestions, are guerilla campaigners. This suggestion would be superfluous if there was already a sizeable organization dedicated to primarying anti-progressive Democrats. However, under the assumption of only being able to mount one serious challenge, it may well be the case that volunteers are not in abundance in that one, lucky district where the nascent progressive-electoral replacement process gets going, in earnest.

Hence, import them from other districts. They can rent an apartment or two, either volunteer or be paid minimum wage, and seriously abuse the landlord's desired maximum occupancy limit. Like good guerilla fighters, everywhere, they will have to rough it.

If there's not enough time/money/level of organization/whatever to support multiple primary challengers as a part of a permanent process that looks to replace bad Congress critters with superior replacements, each and every election cycle, well, at least one of them could be supported this time around

As Obama's Chinese hosts know only too well, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
I know it's not easy to see how to achieve that (4.00 / 1)
which is why I expressed uncertainty in my final paragraph on that point.

But as I said I think defeating the bill is not guaranteed to have the terrible electoral effects you assume, just as it's not guaranteed that passing it will help in 2010.

On the other hand, killing it would finally send the message that the Dem establishment can't take progressives for granted, not to mention providing a much needed morale boost for them.

Anyone who's worried about 2010 ought to take into account how depressed many of the best people are going to be. Surely that can't bode well for activism and even going to the polls.

And just so it's not all about politics, the bill is also terrible as policy. We know from bank regulation and from every other corporatist example that we can't count on any of this bill's "regulatory" measures to control costs or extend meaningful coverage. The only thing it's guaranteed to do, and the only thing it's likely to do, is force this conscript herd to buy worthless but extremely expensive junk. It's worse than the status quo, which it only entrenches.

So killing the bill:

1. Is better on policy grounds;

2. Would have uncertain electoral effects, though I see no reason to think it could cause a disaster, or that it's very likely to do harm at all;

3. Would raise the standing of progressives within the party and in their own eyes.

So we have two positives and one uncertainty, vs. the two corresponding negatives of passing it.

   

http://attempter.wordpress.com


[ Parent ]
oh yeah, I forgot the Latino vote (0.00 / 0)
Since the bill will -- just like Stupak -- introduce FURTHER anti-immigrant measures to keep any money from going to undocumented workers.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

[ Parent ]
Movement or collection of interest groups (4.00 / 4)
This is my own personal, this is not an ACORN position--is that it really points out how the progressive movement is not a movement. It is a bunch of people who share a political vision for America, but do it from the feet of several independent organizations that do not have an infrastructure that allows them to communicate quickly with each other, and create ways so that they can function much more as if they were part of  a unified movement, rather than a bunch of organizations that share a bunch of policy goals, but have a huge set of different methodologies for achieving those goals.

I'm not even sure these groups share a vision - it's more that their positions are built upon common unspoken and undertheorized ideas.  Organizational issues aside (which are extremely important), I'm often frustrated by the unwillingness of progressives to use progressive ideas to sell progressive policies - even in conversations with other progressives. The deep connections between various progressive policies often are left unsaid. Progressivism can often feel like a laundry list of positions that feel like they hang together but it's not entirely clear why.

Obviously, this is not unrelated to the organizational problem.  But this issue is one that progressive activists can begin to address on their own.

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel


Yeah, Actually I Agree With You (4.00 / 1)
I know I said I agreed completely with Nathan, but I guess I wasn't thinking in terms of every jot of what he said.  Also, I was thinking more in terms of sharing a vision even though it remains largely implicit, as Lakoff argues is often the case.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I see it as a wolves versus antelope problem. (4.00 / 8)
Conservatives are like wolves, you attack one and you bring the whole pack down on your head. Liberals are like antelope. Attack one and all the others are thinking "sucks to be him/her." There seems to be no understanding that they can be next.

Montani semper liberi

So here's the question: How do you do it? (4.00 / 1)
How do you build that infrastructure?  Changing the way you think about these issues aside, I'm not sure how that happens. This is especially difficult because the White House is using the veal pen to prevent them from pushing the White House or the Democrats in Congress at all.

I suspect one element is to demand a more aggressive approach from these groups - this seems to be happening for both reproductive rights groups and gay rights groups. And activists on both issues seem to be increasingly aware of the connections in the way the party has treated those issues and many others.  That's a start (I hope.)

I wonder if it is possible to build that infrastructure at the national level, or does this work need to begin at the state or even local level?

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel


Health care will be the graveyard for progressives (0.00 / 0)
Supporting the current healthcare reform bill -- even if you believe the fantasy that its worst features can be amended out -- strangles any discussion of a progressive agenda.  Any attempt at discussing single payer is now seen as endangering this piece of shit.  We can't be blamed, etc., etc.  Any notion of repealing Hyde is seen as endangering this piece of shit.  Etc., etc.

Tossing in fancy lingo about hegemony and infrastructure when you can't stand by the position that healthcare is a human right on the issue that has been and will be center-stage in this crisis doesn't position anyone for improving anything after 2010, or 2012.

If progressives can't respond progressively in the midst of an obvious crisis, then just what good are they?

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


But I CAN and DO Stand By The Position That Health Care Is A Human Right! (4.00 / 1)
You seem incapable of engaging me, because it's so much more fun to beat up on your strawmen.

And yes, my last planned diary of the day is about repealing Hyde.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I know you do (0.00 / 0)
The question is how that POSITION manifests itself.  And this isn't fun.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

[ Parent ]
The 'boycott' of OFA DNC ... AND all of 'em? $ocial Cla$$ (4.00 / 4)
problem.

3 things - 1.a. and 1.b. How to 'organize' - ONE political thing I'd do with the winning zillion dollar mega-lottery ticket. 2. $ocial Cla$$ - why our 'leader$' don't fight. 3. to boycott or not to boycott ... or how about JUST helping those who help you. f'k supporting people while they sell you out, or after they sell you out.

#2 First - the ACORN-ites got hung out to dry cuz the LEADER$ and big $upporter$ on our side come from those relatively affluent leafy neighborhoods.  Lots and lots of money comes from those leafy professional / managerial hoods. Most of these leafy hood people are almost kind of republican-ish in their self image --- "I Earned the SAT / LSAT / GRE / Law School / Grad School score and Ivy / Middlebury seat, I'm smart, why would I say what others say ... what I say is smarter...MY A is bigger than YOUR A..."

These noblerer selflesser honesterer ... don't have to work with others, everyone needs to listen to them!

WINNING at politics ...?? well, at the end of the day the leafies still have some kind of retirement, housing, retraining, re-education, health care SECURITY that few of us know anything about... so, of course they get Stu-Paked by Stu-Pid-Pak-Shit over and over.

1.a. ONE thing I'd do - I fund an EASY to use software suite of tools that ANYONE could set up in 1 hour, by themselves, without hordes of f'king software bureaucrats, for their political organizing.

http://liemail.com/bamboograss...

1.b. ANOTHER thing I'd do is fund my own messaging unit.

1.c. ANOTHER thing I'd do is fund the dirtest, filthest dirty trips organization so that the Nixons and the Roves and the Ailes would KNOW that the ONLY Places they'd be welcome, between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, is behind the gated walls, forever.

but, you could trust me not to turn into 1 of them... absolute power corrupts, absolutely ... except me.

3. STOP sending money to ANY org or ANY individual that sells you out. STOP with the incessant hand wringing diaries - should we support a sell out or shouldn't we?

IF you continue to support sell outs, why the fuck should they stop selling you out? huh? do you need a fucking master's degree to figure this out?

Even better, if there was an online database where, as individuals, we could go after some crap vote or some crap inaction, and PLEDGE on
15 Nov. 2009 _X_ dollars and / or _Y_ minutes against GovernorSenatorRepresentative __SellOUT_____ in the 20__ primary for the following sell out ______.

Imagine how the sell outs would respond when they saw that 100 ... or 1000 or 10,000 pledged 10 bucks apiece AGAINST them. and 30 minutes ... times 100 ... 1000 ... 100000 people.

fuck this catch honey with flies bullshit, I don't want flies, I want to eat my honey, NOT waste it on goddam flies.

rmm.  

It is too full o' the milk of human kindness To catch the nearest way


You always make me laugh (0.00 / 0)
that is not an empty compliment.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Seabos, you're a very hard act to follow, but I still want to comment (4.00 / 1)
The netroots Progressives pulled off what everybody said couldn't be done. They got Obama elected. Ok, he turned out to be a fraud (dare I say it).

But the point remains, Progressive forces came together and did it.

The Internet is the infrastructure. I'm thinking of picking up my copy of Kos - Taking on the System to leaf through it for ideas.(But it's late and I have to go to bed now.) As I recall, he had some very concrete ways to TAKE ON THE SYSTEM. (It's also quite an easy read, BTW.)

Let the Internet be the infrastructure. As Paul and others said above, Progressives need to articulate the vision.

I also know that from studying and participating in social movements that groups with CONCRETE GOALS have a much higher probability for success.

On the health care reform bill, I think we should view it overall as a success, no matter what. Progressive forces came together and (probably)will pass a health care reform bill. It's far from perfect (maybe we should look at what happened to Kennedy-Dingell bill talked about here on Open Left in a previous diary), but Progressives are getting done what Clinton, Nixon, LBJ (any other?) couldn't. Getting this bill this close to passage has been a concrete goal.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905


Commonweal Institute (0.00 / 0)
They're trying to fill the gap
www.commonwealinstitute.org






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