Just wanted to say thanks (4.00 / 8)

you are doing a fantastic job promoting our efforts.

if there's anything you need help with, let me know.

stark . m at gmail

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by: Mike Stark @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 00:57:20 AM CDT

Thanks, Mike, and my pleasure ... (4.00 / 4)

It just so happens that 75% of my day job these days is working on a book about social networks, and so it's great to be able to put all the lessons I've been learning about online activism to work on something I care so much about.  And it's a great campaign, totally laying the groundwork for the future.  It's really exciting to see so many people involved!

jon

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by: JonPincus @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:57:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

It looks really great (4.00 / 1)

Along the lines of what I proposed a while back regarding MYBO and Facebook. I've gotten quite busy all of a sudden, but I'm glad to see someone taking the lead on a basically similar project. I'd imagine it's all the more effective because it is happening a little more organically around an issue that is currently high profile.

Great work!

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.

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by: Sam L @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 22:34:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

On track to be the biggest MyBO group (4.00 / 3)

The Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity - Get FISA Right group is closing on 7,000 members and the day has just begun. How long until it is the biggest MyBO group? I say sometime this July 4 weekend ... that's fitting symbolism!

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by: T Maysle @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:00:29 AM CDT

Currently #4 and soon to be #3 (4.00 / 2)

It appears that the page which lists the Obama groups by their member totals does not update very frequently. Currently the group has 7,266 members! This is up about 200 members in the last couple of hours! Current numbers can be seen by looking at the list of all of the groups current members from the group page. According to the slightly outdated ranking page that puts the group about 1,250 members away from the number three spot. Spread the news and keep up the great work!

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by: nghumphrey @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:06:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Likely to get to #2 today ... (4.00 / 1)

There's some variance in the numbers; I'm currently seeing 7188.  It's been growing at 3% this morning, which would mean we get to #2 sometime around 6:30-7 p.m. EDT -- earlier if things speed up.

For statistics junkies, we're tracking here.  

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by: JonPincus @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:04:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I just joined. (4.00 / 1)

myBO.com and then the first thing I did was join the anti-FISA group.

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by: Jerry 101 @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:29:39 AM CDT

Update (4.00 / 2)

There are now more than 7,300 members in the group! And with 52 more members in the last 9 minutes and about 6000 members to go the site will be number 1 in about 17hrs and 20 min. Keep it up!

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by: nghumphrey @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:36:44 AM CDT

Congratulations! (4.00 / 3)

Here's something I posted on another board. (Full disclosure: I'm an ideological outsider on this board - here because I'm an Obama supporter, but I'm not registered with any political party, and I actually agree with Obama that immunity isn't that big of an issue, as much as its important to assure wiretapping without accountability going forward is a practice that absolutely ceases.  That said, I'm willing to count myself in with this group for the reason posted below.)

**************

It's one of those structural issues that I wish people would notice, especially the so-called "netroots" crew, who I've been watching now, of necessity, since I'm "in the tank" for Obama... ;-) They've been a disappointing bunch. Intellectually interesting, emotionally counterproductive, and missing a key aspect that one would have thought they'd have noticed right off the bat - that small donors have less power than lobbyists unless they band together to do something other than donate.

{NOTE: Yes, that's harsh, but that's how I was feeling right up until I saw this effort!)

The accusation of demagoguery will become a self-fulfilling prophesy if those who support Obama (or who support the small-donor movement that started with Howard Dean) don't start using the power of that movement to effectuate change. Making noise on blogs that basically preach to the choir is NOT effective strategy, and Obama's transparent government movement won't matter a whit if the public fails to make use of the tool to reengage with its government.

"Change we can believe in" is about this - about giving the American people the tools to work with a government that has grown largely too big to be influenced by the "little people." Its about leveling the playing field so that people can get involved themselves and not be completely overwhelmed by the bureaucracy. It ISN'T about Obama doing everything that people think he's going to do, or want him to do, or any such thing. It's not about Obama being a nice guy, or above "politics as usual." It has ALWAYS been about empowering people to do whatever it is they think they need to do with regard to the government - and if it succeeds, it will outlast an Obama presidency, whether that presidency is 4 or 8 years. It is why Obama keeps talking about placing his bet on the American people. At least - I think that's what its about. I'm going to vote for him one way or the other - there's too much good to come from an Obama presidency, even if I'm wrong about this. BUT - I don't think I'm wrong, and I hope that this is the first test that proves the cause.

********************

I then went on to post the link to the group.

QT

Visit the Obama Project

WindOnWater.net

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by: QueenTiye @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:42:07 AM CDT

Great stuff, QT. (4.00 / 2)

Are you familiar with the advocacy work that firedoglake.com has done?  Regardless of whether or not you agree on immunity, I think it answers your call to have the public re-engage with its government.  To quote Christy Hardin Smith -

 

My proudest moment as a blogger was being teased by Rep. Conyers about being the person who unleashes thousands of phone calls and FAXes on his office -- which we couldn't do without all of you caring about these issues so much and being willing to take action on them.

John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq

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by: Aviva @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:04:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well said indeed ... (4.00 / 2)

... although I think the netroots clearly get the part about small donors banding together -- that's what ActBlue's all about, and it's been extremely effective.

The anger that so many of the netroots have expressed about issues like Obama's Fox appearance, the intensity of the attacks on him from many of his supporters, and the repeated clamor for "more partisanship, more attacks" is not only self-destructive, it really interferes with building a movement.  To be clear, I think criticisms are a very good thing; but it often crosses the line.  The challenge for progressives is to be a positive force even (especially?) when we disagree with the candidates -- and to use our influence more effectively in win/win ways.

When I first posted about this campaign on the One Million Strong for Barack group on Facebook (which has a much more diverse set of political opinions than you find on netroots site), somebody said something along the lines of "this seems a lot more productive than all the complaining that's going on right now on [well-known netroots site].  Yeah really.

There are some really good example of this limited attitude by dKos front-pager DHinMI in the comments on The fastest growing group on mybarackobama.com.  As somebody said in a reply, "can you say paradigm shift?"  It's an interesting read.

BUT - I don't think I'm wrong, and I hope that this is the first test that proves the cause.

I feel the same way.  And whether or not this test gets all the results we want, we'll learn from it and improve.  We still have four months before the election ... and (hopefully) four or eight years after it :-)

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by: JonPincus @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:26:52 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Also well said, Jon. (4.00 / 1)

People forget that sometimes what we're doing here is incubating ideas and trying them out.   Some will succeed, some will fail, some will evolve into something completely different. We're fortunate that we're able to conduct experiments in activism that cost nothing, financially.  (I do want to put in a big acknowledgement of the contributions of time and expertise that you and so many others are making.)

The netroots starting out filling a gap of media and political critique that was missing from the national discouse. Along the way it's also filled a gap of progressive community.  So, dare I say,  we've gotten really good at criticizing and venting (which is something the general emotional tone of the internet seems to lend itself to anyway.)

Now we're beginning to fill the gap of civics 101 and basic activism - this is not going to happen overnight, and it's not easy to do.

 

John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq

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by: Aviva @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:11:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

MyBO (4.00 / 3)

was designed to allow local Obama activists to

a) organize with one another
b) inform each other about events
c) raise money
d) build local infrastructure in their community

Putting aside the fact that doing this kind of community organizing and voter registration this summer is an enormously progressive strategy...a strategy that is, as far as I can see, not really emphasized here on Open Left. (Mind-boggling.)

Have the architects of the "Bloggers use MyBO to express policy opposition to Barack Obama" tactic given any thought to the fact that they are using a tool that was meant to empower local groups (and hence competing for server space with those groups) when the blogs are already perfectly fine instruments for expressing mass opposition to Obama's FISA policy?

At what point would a mega-group on MyBO formed in opposition to Barack Obama in order to create publicity for opposition to Obama's policies be something that is counter-productive?

When the email servers start to groan? When the press covers the bloggers oppossing Barack more than the thousands of citizens registering voters this year? I don't know.

It does strike me as ironic that the folks who know technology...the bloggers...are elbowing aside server space and media oxygen from thousands of folks who are completely new to social networking and community organizing and who understand their participation this election cycle in simple terms:

registering new voters
canvassing and phonebanking battleground states
working with their neighbors to make change locally and nationally

Should progressives express disagreement with Senator Obama on policy positions? Sure, if you think that is the most effective and progressive use of your time.

I personally see much more progressive net benefit registering low income voters and building a vibrant, locally-rooted community organizing model for making change and growing new leaders.

Do people talk about FISA at the local meetings I attend? Yes, some do. But many more talk about getting involved for the first time. And many others talk about the kind of local issues that concern the vast majority of American citizens.

That's what 2008 is about.

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by: kid oakland @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:28:00 PM CDT

That's a very fair criticism (4.00 / 3)

as is the defense offered by Aviva.

However - I stand on this principle - where my money goes, I have a right to speak up to be sure its being used as I intended.  A bunch of local voter registration drives doesn't entirely do what I want it to do, when the guy I'm trying to elect is going in a different direction than I'm trying to elect him for.

Obama has another section of the site - under "Issues" is the option to post your own issue.  I've posted about 4 issues, and have not heard back from the campaign about any of them, nor do I see any way that those posts go anywhere but the dust heap.  Meanwhile a phone call to the campaign proved that the campaign phone workers never even heard of it, and thought that maybe it was just legacy junk (it's on every single issues page, so I don't think so).  Clearly there's no other way (outside of these groups) to make opinions heard, so while I sympathize with the need of Obama to use these tools for organizing around his campaign effort, he either needs to create another way to allow for organizing around the issues at MyBarackObama.com, or suffer with the way the grassroots is using it now.  

Also, let me be clear.  I see this as a fundamental responsibility of the campaign.  He has articulated a grassroots effort, while at the same time asking people NOT to fund 527s... don't you think this means he wants it all under his umbrella? Well, then, here we are.

QT

Visit the Obama Project

WindOnWater.net

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by: QueenTiye @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:39:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Both/And (4.00 / 2)

I appreciate your comments, but what you present as some kind of Either/Or concern is really more of a Both/And situation.

Everything the "mega group" formed on myBO represents is covered by part a) "organize with one another".

Both the blogs AND the groups on myBO.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:55:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Agreed on both/and -- and it's an important point (4.00 / 1)

Great posts all -- an excellent thread indeed, on a whole slew of important subjects!

I also very much agree with kid oakland that there's no substitute for in-person contact, registering voters, and paying attention to local concerns -- and that the theme of 2008 election is getting involved, often for the first time.

For a lot of people, though, an online activism campaign is the first time they have gotten involved.  The low barriers to participation make it easy; suddenly you're part of something big that's showing up on the blogs (and hopefully soon the rest of the media) ... and your contribution matters.  Yesterday there was a concerted effort to ramp a post up to the front page on digg; within an hour, it went from 160 diggs to 400 and there it was.  Every single person who participated in that got to share in a small victory -- and so did the 1600 others who have done it since then.  The dozen-plus folks who have helped out on the wiki similarly feel a stake in the campaign's success, as do the 200 or more who have sent heartfelt messages to the group, and so on and so on.  These are all people who are now much more likely to get involved in all kinds of activism in the future.

One other thing I'd add: don't overestimate how much we know technology.  Thus far, nobody in the US has cracked the problem of using social networks for activism -- progressive or otherwise.  The biggest worldwide success story so far, I believe, is Voces Contra las FARC, which went from a new Facebook group to millions of people in the streets in about two months.  I'd sure like to learn how to unleash that kind of energy here.  "Pure online" efforts like this one, with a constrained time and specific focus, are great labs.  And I think it'll be possible to apply the learning to community organizing as a whole, not just the specific problem of trying to influence a Senate vote.

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by: JonPincus @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 16:36:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's not necessarily a zero sum game. (4.00 / 1)

I hesitate to add anything to what QT said, but let me note this:

progressives can both push Obama on the issues AND work to register voters, canvass and phonebank and GOTV.  It's not automatically a zero sum game.   

And it's still only July 1: you can certainly debate the utility of pushing on the issues after Labor Day, but we're not there yet. 

It's also worth noting that various people joined myBO to become part of this group, thus giving the Obama campaign an opportunity to recruit more activists.   The Obama campaign may come out ahead here. 

 The discussion as to whether or not or how strenuously one should criticize the candidate once the general campaign has begun is a separate issue, and that is one that's been debated here on OpenLeft. 

 

 

 

John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq

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by: Aviva @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 13:43:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"opposition to Obama's policies' (0.00 / 0)

Has he retracted his stated intent to vote for removing the telco bailout from the bill?

To the extent that the "Get FISA Right' group inspires pressure on the rest of the Senate, it's supporting his policy.



This is a Test of the Emergency Free Speech System. This is only a Test. In an actual Free Speech Emergency, I'll be locked up.

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by: Ben Masel @ Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 13:17:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Slashdot (0.00 / 0)

Slashdotted

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by: AliceDem @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:42:19 PM CDT

w00t w00t! (0.00 / 0)

gotta like that!  thanks for posting it!

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by: JonPincus @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 16:36:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Rock!!! (0.00 / 0)

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

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by: Will @ Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 17:43:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]