Hoyer-led Dems to Cave Again on FISA

by: Matt Stoller

Thu Oct 04, 2007 at 18:29


( - promoted by Matt Stoller)

I just got word from the ACLU that a new and bad FISA bill is about to be unveiled tomorrow at 1:30pm by Steny Hoyer in a press-only briefing.  Telecom immunity is not in the bill, but the Senate is pressing hard for that to be included.

The dynamic in the House is really odd.  Hoyer and Emanuel seem to be pushing for a FISA capitulation to 'protect the freshmen', even though the freshmen understand their constituents don't want a FISA capitulation.  No one will go on the record on any of this, and Emanuel and Hoyer aren't voting for the capitulation, only orchestrating its passage.

This is not a surprise, though it is amusing that Pelosi's promises to 'fix' the temporary FISA bill passed in August are as worthless as they appeared at the time.

What's weird is that no one wants this capitulation except Hoyer and Emanuel.  The Bush Dogs are going to vote for it, since that's what they would do, but they would vote for a better bill.  The freshmen don't feel politically threatened by a better bill, and know that standing up to Bush is popular.  It's like the House is operating on conservative autopilot.

The progressive caucus is unified against the bill (update: well, technically they are unified for 'principles' since the text of the bill isn't out yet).  If there's a way to beat this back, it's through the freshmen.  I hope they start speaking out against it.

UPDATE:  I should say that I don't have the specifics of the bill, which will be unveiled tomorrow.  But it's telling the ACLU and civil liberties experts were cut out of the process.
Matt Stoller :: Hoyer-led Dems to Cave Again on FISA

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Hoyer-led Dems to Cave Again on FISA | 19 comments
Conservative autopilot = Steny Hoyer controls the balance of power (0.00 / 0)
Steny Hoyer controls all the swing votes in the Dem House caucus.  Well, not "controls," precisely, but Steny Hoyer is thought to be speaking for the 70 or so Representatives in the center-left, and for what they want and what they don't.  So Hoyer's sense of strategy gets projected onto all these people by other key actors (Pelosi, Obey, Conyers, Murtha), and Hoyer's sense of what's wise and appropriate winds up ruling the day. 

I wonder if anyone is still in contact with Paul Hodes.  DavidNYC used to be real high on him back when no one else was, and Hodes was elected leader of the freshman class.  Either the New Dems (Tauscher, Adam Smith, Artur Davis) or the freshmen or both need to assert their independent understanding of strategy, distinct from Hoyer's, or Hoyer is gonna continue leading Pelosi around by the nose cause she thinks he's got the swing vote.

Incidentally Adam Smith voted against the last FISA bill, although strategic advocacy and actual voting are not the same thing, as we've seen.

Also, I went on a rant identifying Steny Hoyer as the real Bush Dog (4.00 / 1)
here, a couple days ago.  I don't know if anyone saw it or not, but it parallels a lot of what you just said here.
[ Parent ]
What kind of district is Hoyer from? ... (0.00 / 0)
If MoveOn and others are willing to help out as far as primary-ing someone  ... is it possible to elect a Progressive in Hoyer's stead?
[ Parent ]
Definitely Need a Primary (4.00 / 2)
A serious primary challenge to Hoyer is crucial. Not because it would unseat him (although that would be nice) but because of the signal it would send to the entire caucus, and the way it would affect Hoyer's policy / politics over the next 13 months. Find and then funding a quasi-viable primary challenger for Hoyer should be one of Open Left's and the blogosphere's top priorities over the next few months. It could make a major difference for a relatively low investment.
[ Parent ]
Is NSA in his district? (0.00 / 0)
He's from Maryland.  The NSA is headquartered in Fort Meade.

I've read that the economy of the Baltimore area is actually showing a major uptick with all the companies getting fat off of NSA contracts.

Could his support for more surveillance have anything to do with this?

[ Parent ]
It's Maryland's largest employer (0.00 / 0)
  But it was also Maryland's largest employer when we had a workable, reasonable, constitutional FISA law. Getting back to a wiretapping law befitting a "democratic" country isn't going to detract from the NSA's mission.

  The simpler explanation is that Hoyer's just a reactionary, authoritarian ass.

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
Hodes isn't freshman president anymore. (0.00 / 0)
Six month terms. It's Tim Walz now, and he voted for the last FISA capitulation.

So there's a place to start.

[ Parent ]
The hungry hungry shredder is bearing down (4.00 / 1)
Protect the freshmen from what? Rush Limbaugh? How about protecting our constitution from shredding?
This does not smell of conservative inertia (4.00 / 1)
This is taking effort not lack of effort.  Where is the money on this.  Who gains?  Because this just does not smell right.
Oh how true... (4.00 / 1)
I have given up trying to ascribe things like this to mere spinelessness.  It takes a lot of spine to push crap like this at a time when voters are so angry.  Somebody in control has an agenda that is different from ours and thinks they can take the heat.
[ Parent ]
Is it fast-tracked to the floor, or (0.00 / 0)
will it have to go through 1 or more Committees?



This is a Test of the Emergency Free Speech System. This is only a Test. In an actual Free Speech Emergency, I'll be locked up.
Capitulation? (0.00 / 0)
What capitulation?  Capitulation has become one of those 'catch-all' throwaway words. Could you be more specific even though you have no specifics! (see Stoller update)

it is amusing that Pelosi's promises to 'fix' the temporary FISA bill passed in August are as worthless as they appeared at the time.

How is her promise not good if you don't know what the bill includes? You say that Telecom immunity is not in the bill and it is 'supposedly' only Hoyer and Emanuel pushing for it. So where is the capitulation on Pelosi's part? You don't even know what is in it.

Yawn.............. (0.00 / 1)
[ Parent ]
Re: Capitulation (0.00 / 0)
> So where is the capitulation on Pelosi's part?
>  You don't even know what is in it.

Not having a public, open, democratic (small d) discussion of the underlying concept of FISA and the entire structure and details of the proposed bill is capitulation.  If the United States is going to have a Court of Star Chamber then we should at least have an open and honest discussion about it before we impose it on ourselves.

sPh

[ Parent ]
See what, if any, Committees get it. (4.00 / 1)
If Pelosi sends it to judiciary, we'll get a decent bill. If she lets Intel alone have it, she's carrying Cheney's water.



This is a Test of the Emergency Free Speech System. This is only a Test. In an actual Free Speech Emergency, I'll be locked up.
[ Parent ]
I don't think so (4.00 / 1)
No - public discussion is not capitulation by definition of the word itself. Like I said in my post, and you just proved it, the word has become 'catch-all' throwaway word, to the point that people are now assigning their own definitions to it.

FYI if you don't think that there has been any public discussion you have not been paying attention. Many people have called and written congress with their concerns. The blogs have discussed the issue openly as has the MSM. Although the ACLU didn't get to rewrite the bill, and they shouldn't have anyway, they let their opinions be heard. Which is why Matt's factless post was way too premature given that the press briefing has been called off and progressive congress people who have been listening to the public discussion that you say has not taken place are acting on that 'non-existent' public discussion today.

[ Parent ]
This should be interesting (0.00 / 0)
Telecom immunity not being included in the bill could be a deal-breaker to prevent this thing from passing either way and give us more time.

I am going to wait and see what the ACLU says when they see the bill, but I do find the absence of telecom immunity to be encouraging.

Ugh (4.00 / 1)
I can see the point some folks are making about waiting until tomorrow for the specifics before levelling criticism on Pelosi, Hoyer and Ramen Noodle. But that's based on the assumption that the merry band of asshats who comprise the Democratic Party in DC are not always going to sell out, cave in, or capitulate. Pick whichever word you like the most,but we ought to know by now that they are going to sell us and the constitution out.
If majority GOP over a minority of Dems approve it (0.00 / 0)
it's shit, plain and simple
Hoyer-led Dems to Cave Again on FISA | 19 comments
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