New Hampshire Results Thread

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 19:40


From the Concord Monitor website:
?? / 65% of 301 precincts reporting:
Clinton: 39%: 67,826 (+5,090, Clinton starting to move clear)
Obama 36%: 62,736
Edwards: 17%
Richardson: 5%
Kucinich: 2%

Update 15: MSNBC calls it for Clinton. What an all-time shocker. The momentum swings back in her direction, now. Nevada looms as a huge, huge battleground.

Update 14 This just in over email:

One of the only real college towns (a small one) to report so far has been Keene, which went 41-27 for Obama. Durham/Newmarket and Hanover haven't reported yet.

This is going to be very close.

Update 13: Starting to wonder if Obama can catch up here. The vote margin keeps increasing, and Clinton won the cities, 41%--39%.

Update 12: I'm going to start looking more at the vote margin than anything else. Also, in 2004, Dean scored 57,761 votes. Clinton and Obama are about to pass that number.

Update 11: I also wonder how much absentee voting there was. No only would it be unaffected by momentum, but it wouldn't be including in the exit poll. Clinton could very well win this...

Update 10: Apparently, no college towns have reported yet. That is good news for Obama. Check that: Keane is a college town and has reproted.

Update 9: I'm officially stunned. The eleven poll average, taken entirely post-Iowa, showed Obama ahead by 7.8%. Polling averages are rarely off by more than a net of 3%. This is looking like at least 6% net error across the average, and possibly more. Stunning. People will guess at the reasons for this for a while. My best guess is a sharp turn toward Clinton among older women when the media, and Edwards, criticized Clinton for showing some emotion. No matter how male the punditry might be, one forgets that women are a majority of the electorate at one's own peril...

Update 8: This is really bad news for Obama if he loses. Clinton now seems like she will be OK no matter what, because she beat expectations. "Comeback Clinton," will be one of the narratives, even if she loses. However, if she comes back all the way and wins, then Obama's momentum might not only be stopped, it could be reversed. Nevada now looms as a major battleground...

Update 7: More exit poll comparisons. The liberal vote is way up, from 47% to 57%. While this should have benefited Obama, he only leads Clinton 40-37% in that category. Women also turned out at high rates, up to 57% from 54%. Again, a good sign for Clinton.

Update 6: Comparing 2004 and 2008 New Hamsphire exit polls. Under 30 vote up from 14% to 17%, but over 65 vote also up from 11% to 14%. Self-identified Democrats increase from 48% to 54%. the former is a wash, the latter is good for Obama Clinton.

Update 5: The CNN exit poll projects to a very narrow Obama win, 39.4%--38.1%. That is within the margin of error for the exit poll, probably. There appears to be massive Democratic, female turnout. Clinton appears to have rallied women aged 40 and over.

Update 4: Apparently, the exit poll shows Obama ahead 39%-34%. It might be even closer than that. I have heard that Clinton did have Dean's New Hampshire field guru (can't remember her name), and Michael Whouley working in New Hampshire. That is a helluva field team.

Update 3: Clinton is certainly doing well so far,  much better than expectations. Still, one would expect that the larger, urban precincts haven't reported yet, and that those precincts should favor Obama. Also, there is no way that Edwards beats Clinton now. CNN has officially projected him 3rd.

Update 2: On the Republican side, McCain has beeen declared the winner by every news outlet.

Update: CNN has slightly faster results, but doesn't have the exact number of precincts reporting. Turnout looks huge.

Chris Bowers :: New Hampshire Results Thread

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Posted in other thread (0.00 / 0)
Concord Ward 5: Obama 56%, Clinton 29%, Edwards 11%.

Not good news for my guy.  Increadible news for Obama.


Do you know... (0.00 / 0)
  ...if that's one of the four precincts covered above?

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
Whoops (0.00 / 0)
  My post is already obsolete.

  I'm not going to get any work done tonight.

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
politico.com has results by town (0.00 / 0)
I just saw that Politico.com has results by town.  I don't know NH very well, but maybe some readers do that can tell us which ones are important?

[ Parent ]
I support Edwards, but if Obama removes Hillary from the race (0.00 / 0)
then good enough for me. To me Hillary appears a corporatist and the sooner she falls out the better.

Then we'll see Edwards and Obama compete down the road. I live in NY and if Hillary stands for the vote in NY I vote for Edwards.

Learn how you can enact HR 676 and stop the war. See http://liberal.democ...


CNN Exit Poll (2.00 / 2)
Best Chance of Winning in November

Clinton - 88%

Edwards - 74%

Obama - 71%

I'd say the people of NH have that right.

Experience is back! Even with a close second place finish...

Momentum shifts to Clinton!


[ Parent ]
Here Is The Killer (0.00 / 0)
Who is Most Likely to Unite the Country?

Clinton - 97%

Edwards - 81%

Obama - 70%

Again the people of NH have this right.

Big Mo for Clinton.

Peoples - We got a horse race - but...

Obama has played his hand, and Clinton just hit the start switch.


[ Parent ]
This One Is Interesting (0.00 / 0)
And a bit of a shocker:

Catholics went for Clinton 44% to 28% Obama.

And "Other Christian" - 54% Clinton to 32% Obama

Wow if it plays out like that in the rest of the country Obama  is looking at 2016.


[ Parent ]
Look in the Republican column (4.00 / 1)
In around 16th place is a certain "Vermin Supreme". Surely that can't be his real name? Is Rudy Giuliani on the ballot twice?

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

Actually, I quite like his program... (0.00 / 0)
http://www.zerohits....

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

[ Parent ]
An American echo (0.00 / 0)
of the Monster Raving Looney Party.

[ Parent ]
There is a White Supremicist .. (0.00 / 0)
on the Democratic ballot? ...  WTF?????

Clinton (4.00 / 1)
blowing Obama away in Manchester, holding her own in Portsmith.

This might be WAY closer than we thought.


Fox News Exit Poll (0.00 / 0)
http://youdecide08.f...

Obama 39
Clinton 34

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


[ Parent ]
CNN Exit poll (0.00 / 0)
If I did my math right (they don't give totals), CNN's exit poll has Obama over Clinton only 39% to 38%.

[ Parent ]
As an Edwards supporter and Obama second choicer (4.00 / 1)
These early results are rather disturbing to me.  Do we know anything about the makeup of the precincts that have reporter so far?

As To Me (0.00 / 0)
Did Clinton's dirty tricks work? Jesus, I hope not.

I don't think I can vote for her in the general after the crap she's pulled.

I so wanted this time to be different.


[ Parent ]
Gee (4.00 / 2)
Maybe people paid attention that Obama has a lobbyist for Big PHARMA running his campaign in NH.

I posted about that the other day and got crickets from the hypocritical crowd.


[ Parent ]
are you comparing that to (4.00 / 3)
"Since taking office in 2001, Clinton has delivered $500 million worth of earmarks that have specifically benefited 59 corporations. About 64% of those corporations provided funds to her campaigns through donations made by employees, executives, board members or lobbyists, a review by the Los Angeles Times shows."

http://www.huffingto...

including massive earmarks for military contracts.

how about them crickets?

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


[ Parent ]
No (0.00 / 0)
I'm comparing it to when Obama was called on it on the National TV Debate he lied and denied it when he knew people could verify it. And they did.

Maybe that was Obama's Macaca moment.

CNN Exit:

Who is Most Honest and Trustworthy?

Clinton - 96%

Obama - 88%

You may not like Clinton but she tell you how it is and who she is. After Bush, evidently that mean a lot. At least to the honest people of NH.

If I was Clinton I show that clip on ads from now to Feb 5th.


[ Parent ]
BTW (0.00 / 0)
How about posting all the big money Obama has taken from corporations, employees, executives, board members or lobbyists.


[ Parent ]
post it yourself (0.00 / 0)
you know more than me apparently

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
Naw (0.00 / 0)
Why rub it in. You know he takes the big corporate money and hires lobbyists to run his campaign.

[ Parent ]
I left DKos because of crap like this (0.00 / 0)
At least have the balls to put your money where you mouth is.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
"CONVENTIONAL WISDOM" says: (4.00 / 1)
Obama has a greater degree of support in urban districts; urban districts, because they are by definition more densely populated, take longer to complete and turn in their precinct results. Therefore, if Obama leads you should expect much of that lead to come become visible only in the later stages of the counting.

I don't know how valid this is, but it certainly held true in Iowa where if you were watching as the precinct results came in, until a fairly significant number of the precincts were represented, the order was Edwards-Clinton-Obama.


[ Parent ]
Thanks (4.00 / 1)
Now I don't have to puke.

Yet.


[ Parent ]
at 30% this better start shifting (0.00 / 0)
or I'm going to have to warm up my gag finger

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
Just Stick It Down There (0.00 / 0)
You'll feel better after it all comes out.

[ Parent ]
Won't work in NH (4.00 / 2)
The biggest town, Manchester, is also the most conservative in NH.  Think Reagan Democrats.

Nothing from the South, Nashua, or Concord.

The Edwards vote appears to have collapsed.  Sigh.


[ Parent ]
How did it collapse? .. (0.00 / 0)
He was getting about 20% in most polls I saw.

[ Parent ]
Rochester and Dover (0.00 / 0)
are north on the seacoast near the maine border - Clinton is winning both by surprising margins.  She is also winning in some parts of manchester.

I know concord went heavily for Obama, but is not part of the 11%.

This looks way closer than it was supposed to be - and it appears the Edwards vote has collapsed.


[ Parent ]
I intended on doing something else tonight (0.00 / 0)
But with things that close I will have to watch.

highly tight between Hillary and Obama (0.00 / 0)
As an Edwards supporter, I'm disappointed in these early numbers.  But a tight race and a slim win by Obama will make Hillary's campaign much stronger.  This thing will go to Feb 5th at least.  This is no where near decided.

Edwards can and should retool and I think can still spring back, I suspect in Nevada.  The economy and Iraq should be his cornerstone, focus like a laser on the mortgage crisis. Go on the stump with economists maybe, hit the issue hard in Nevada and the west.


MSNBC calls it for McCain (0.00 / 0)
Olbermann just called it. McCain over Mitt.

Note they have not (4.00 / 1)
called the Dem race.

If Hillary gets within 5 she will declare victory.


[ Parent ]
McCain just called as winner, where the fuck did independents go (0.00 / 0)
projection is 37% to 28% Romney, the race is tight as shit between Clinton and Obama.
It's another earthquake, everybody is going to retool.

Hillary needs to fire Mark Penn

Edwards needs to refine and head west.

Obama needs to sharpen his message


Have you seen the ballot? (0.00 / 0)
http://concordmonito...

That is a LONG list of names. Most with 10 or less total votes!
Alan Keyes is on there, Biden is barely beating out Gravel, and poor Dal LaMagna is the only one with 0 votes. Hope he at least votes for himself!

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra


Only 12% but... (0.00 / 0)
Da*n.  If Hilary is within 5%, this thing isn't over by a longshot.

Expectations - funny things.


What are the names of the urban precincts (0.00 / 0)
dont make me open a map

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

new hampture cities by population (0.00 / 0)
http://www.citypopul...

biggest:
Manchester 109,497
Nashua  87,157
Concord  42,378
Rochester 30,117

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


[ Parent ]
results (0.00 / 0)
I look forward to your insight about what exactly happened to Edwards.

For me well, it breaks my heart...


what were your expectations? (4.00 / 2)
I didn't think he was going to break 20% in NH... His national numbers have been surging, I'd say stay tuned.

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers


[ Parent ]
He was ignored. (0.00 / 0)
And it was framed as "Clinton on the ropes."

VISA is Hungry! http://www.funnyordie.com/vide...

Remember Obama trailed both Clinton (0.00 / 0)
& Edwards until about 30% of the Iowa results were in....

Early precincts are generally rural, and conservative dems dominate...


Amazingly (0.00 / 0)
according to CNN lots of those rural precincts are going for Obama.  Don't have a clue what that means or if we can buy the results, but that's what they said.

[ Parent ]
So far as I know (0.00 / 0)
Nashua and Concord (second and third largest cities) have yet to report, and only half of Manchester (and it's possible Obama finds a way to narrow the gap there, even just a little bit would help).

Obama is already carrying Concord (0.00 / 0)
Nashau has not reported however.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
I hear Manchester is a Clinton stronghold (0.00 / 0)
and always an early reporter...

[ Parent ]
Exit Polls (0.00 / 0)
I did a quick calculation from the exit polls on CNN and got these numbers:

Obama 39
Clinton 38
Edwards 16
Richardson 5
Kucinich

This is the link I used for the exit polls:
http://www.cnn.com/E...

I multiplied the candidate percentages with the gender percentages, then added them.


Romney just officially conceded NH (0.00 / 0)


Karen Hicks is the woman whose name you can't remember.... (0.00 / 0)
She was Dean's NH person in '04 and has worked on Hilary's national team for the last year.....

The times has clinton 40 obama 26 with 26% in (0.00 / 0)
Could Clinton actually pull this one off?

36%, not 26% (0.00 / 0)
Per MSNBC with 30% of precincts reporting
Clinton 40%
Obama 36%
difference of about 2700 actual votes

[ Parent ]
Yes, you're right. (0.00 / 0)
Stupid typos

[ Parent ]
Now I'm hoping... (0.00 / 0)
  ...that Obama doesn't get blown out.

  His campaign didn't do a very good job of managing expectations. Even though that was pretty much their only mistake.

  Where are the Edwards votes migrating to? I find it hard to believe that an Edwards supporter would switch to Clinton instead of Obama...

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


Well, considering how his partisans here were acting... (0.00 / 0)
I don't think expectations were maneagable

[ Parent ]
Well (0.00 / 0)
Between the great polls and the media love-fest I don't see how they could have dampened expectations effectively. Anyways, the race is on now.

[ Parent ]
Nothing from the Connecticutt (4.00 / 1)
River Valley, Durham and Hannover.  Nothing from Nashua.

My friend, a city councelor in Concord, tells me what's out should be good for Obama.  He is VERY surprised at the overall total from Concord.

Obama is going to win, but by no more than 5.

Clinton is back from the dead.


scenario question (4.00 / 1)
What happens if it's Clinton NH, Obama IA and Edwards NV going into super tuesday?

Clinton Stole the 25 - 29 year olds (0.00 / 0)
Looks like Clinton stole the older Millennials from Obama.

Obama won both 17-24 and 25 - 29 year olds with 57% in Iowa.  He's replicating that among the young crowd, but Hillary has tied it up among the older group.


Youth To Power: How Today's Young Voters Are Building Tomorrow's Progressive Majority


Major dereliction of duty (0.00 / 0)
I'm stunned and appalled that someone would cast their vote based on the tears of a candidate ... just shameful.

VISA is Hungry! http://www.funnyordie.com/vide...

Its just a guess (0.00 / 0)
Its not like I know that happened for certain...

[ Parent ]
It was my guess too (0.00 / 0)
  Like I said below, I was having a really bad feeling about the way that "crying" episode was broadcast on an infinite tape loop yesterday.

  This wasn't Obama's fault, either. I just hope he doesn't get TOO down on himself and continues fighting.

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
Maybe they're reacting against the sexist backlash to that incident (0.00 / 0)
I don't like Clinton, but this whole incident is making me feel a lot more sympathetic toward her.

[ Parent ]
well... (4.00 / 1)
Burns: People, if we meet this week's quota, I'll take you to the most duck-filled pond you ever sat by!

Grampa: Oh, hot-diggity! That's how they got me to vote for Lyndon LaRouche! (The Old Man and the Lisa)



"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers


[ Parent ]
Was it all a feint? (0.00 / 0)
  All this stuff about Hillary's campaign being in "disarray"... was it just a headfake?

  I didn't have a good feeling about the media's incessant replay of that "crying" episode. I figured that might cause a backlash...

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


Sure wasn't a fake out (0.00 / 0)
All the polls basically agreed that Obama would win by some amount of another. I doubt Hillary knew something the rest of America didn't.

Also, the crying may have helped to a degree, but the debate helped more, IMHO.

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra


[ Parent ]
I'm getting a kick out of MSNBC's exit polling on Iraq (0.00 / 0)
Both Edwards and Obama do better among voters who think the U.S. should keep troops in Iraq as long as needed than among voters who want a gradual timetable and do better among voters wanting a timetable than among voters who want withdrawal ASAP.  Hillary Clinton does the opposite and actually won among voters who want a speedy withdrawal from Iraq, despite Obama winning among voters who said the war in Iraq is the most important issue.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

wait are you saying voters are idiots? (4.00 / 1)
Stop being so stuck up.

[ Parent ]
No (0.00 / 0)
I just think it's sort of funny since I don't think anyone here would have predicted that pattern.

Or maybe I think that New Hampshire voters are sheeple.

It's up to you.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
I wouold have (0.00 / 0)
predicted that since I had a back and forth with an Obama supporter on MYDD last week who was arguing that Obama would keep troops in Iraq as long as necessary while Clinton and Edwards just wanted to leave.

I know it's stupid but apparently some Obama supporters just pour their own positions into him and love it.  That can happen when you run an empty vessel campaign like he's done.


[ Parent ]
So how do you explain (0.00 / 0)
Why Edwards voters follow the same pattern as Obama voters and not Clinton voters?

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
I can't explain (0.00 / 0)
that, the only reason I mentioned Obama at all was the particular guy was supporting him.  For all I know, it could just be some men believe that the male candidate will be tougher and more resolute than a female.

Either way, those voters will be almost surely lost in a race against someone like McCain, who really is resolute (or nuts).


[ Parent ]
voters are sheeple (0.00 / 0)
progressives just have a hard time coming to terms with that fact.

[ Parent ]
by the way- (0.00 / 0)
I dont support Obama, but i am curious to find out the eventual numbers and how it plays out with the race gap.

[ Parent ]
Cant we just use the poll results this time? (0.00 / 0)
.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

Quote Bowers: (0.00 / 0)
Update 9: I'm officially stunned. The eleven poll average, taken entirely post-Iowa, showed Obama ahead by 7.8%. Polling averages are rarely off by more than a net of 3%. This is looking like at least 6% net error across the average, and possibly more.

There is no error here. Clinton made her case yesterday and moved the soft support. She closed the gap with some hard campaigning.

But bottomline what did it for her was her coming out of her shell and telling 16 people in front of cameras just how bad she wants to help the country. That and saying "some are ready and some are not" - that was the dagger - that is what hit people between the eyes and moved them.

And it shows in the examples of the exit polls I showed above.


more poll analysis please (0.00 / 0)
You can read THAT from polls?  You have phenomenal abilities beyond any other human. 

This also must mean that your candidate is best.


[ Parent ]
Uh Yeah (0.00 / 0)
Why else would move the numbers so much?

If one poll was so far off then Bowers would have a case that they made an error. But all the major polls?

No way.

Plus look at the Exit Poll data above and see how Clinton is beating Obama in almost every important category.

I'd like to see the polls again and see how much was soft support. If I remember quite a few were which is showing up in the voting booth.

Remember - Iowa doesn't have the greatest track record of picking a President. This isn't the first time NH has shifter the landscape.


[ Parent ]
Why? (0.00 / 0)
"Why else would move the numbers so much?"
What kind of voting equippment do they use in NH?
:-/

[ Parent ]
Here comes the (0.00 / 0)
"I can't handle the truth" crowd.

Very predictable.

Maybe it was the voting machines in Iowa? LOL


[ Parent ]
enough already (4.00 / 1)
Wow, you are insufferable. And naive, thinking that any candidate is clean with money in this case other than Edwards.  (And at this point, I think he's out of it.)

Grow up and be polite.  Politics is about coalitions, not conquering.  You don't know much about practicing politics, that much is clear.


[ Parent ]
Money? (0.00 / 0)
My post and the one I was responding to had nothing to do with money. The guy made a whack remark suggesting NH is rigged. But of course you give that kind of post a pass. Real consistency on your part.

Gees some of you get so bitter when the vote doesn't go exactly how you wanted it to. You should grow up. This thing isn't over until Feb. 5 at the earliest so get used to the ebb and flow.


[ Parent ]
Not being a bit suspisious would be naive. (0.00 / 0)
"Mike Hunt" posted this at Americablog:
http://presscue.com/...
Diebold favors Hillary, hand count for Obama
http://www.dailypaul...
Very fishy in one town, my hometown!!!
My mom, aunt, and dad all voted for RP today in my hometown, My mom and aunt both work passing out ballots, and checking them off. I just looked at the politico map and it says their town has ZERO votes for Ron. Now i know that there isn't corruption on voting in that little town, so where they reported it must be. What do I do, anyone know???
http://www.bradblog....
NH Primary: Pre-Election Polls Wildly Different Than Results Announced for Clinton/Obama
Other Pre-Election Numbers, For Republicans and Rest of Dems, Nearly Dead on the Money...
http://www.bradblog....

There could be totally innocent explanations, of course, but these anomalies should be definetely lloked into. Especially the difference between the voting maching vs hand count and the Ron Paul incident.


[ Parent ]
Re: Update 9 (4.00 / 5)
I was wondering the same thing about the upturn for Clinton, and the high amount of middle aged female votes.  There were a lot of undecideds in this race.  Many people polled said they decided today.

I think it may have had something to do with the rotten treatment Hillary got in the media over the show of emotion.  Edwards' reaction may have been a factor, but it didn't get much press.  I think there was another factor though -- during Saturday's debate, Obama treated her in a very misogynistic way when he made the "you're attractive enough, Hillary" comment.  Men may not have picked up on it, but he not only insulted her, he did it in a sexist, dismissive way and when called on it later by a reporter, he admitted he should have said it differently but couldn't suppress his amusement.  I don't get offended all that easily but these all of these things added up for me, and I'm in that fortysomething category, and I was really put off by it.  Hillary isn't even my candidate of choice, Edwards is, but I've been defending her online for three days now.

Women are sick and tired of being treated like dirt and being treated unfairly.  We might be seeing that in the vote tonight.  I don't know.  It could also just be that Obama hysteria leeched into polls that for a long time were predicting that Clinton would do well in NH.


That's almost exactly my read on that (4.00 / 1)
The whole thing was a big, big turnoff to me.  This nasty sexist reaction to Clinton is getting old. 

[ Parent ]
I think you are right (0.00 / 0)
on the undecideds. I mentioned that elsewhere in the thread.

[ Parent ]
Actually (4.00 / 1)
Th correct quote Obama said to Hillary in the debate is:

"You're likeable enough."  That was in response to the moderator questioning Clinton's likeability. 

As a woman, I can say that there's enough sexism out there without women inventing it where it doesn't exist.  Obama has never been sexist in my reckoning.  Bill Clinton apparently treats women like disposable objects of his libido.  Since Hillary keeps running on her husband's record, let his record on how he has used and abused women speak for itself.

Rudy is a Tyrant


[ Parent ]
That's dismissive too (n/t) (0.00 / 0)


Banned for posting five straight diaries.

[ Parent ]
You're right about the quote, but (0.00 / 0)
I disagree with you about the nature of the incident.

Sorry about the mistake with the quote.  He said "You're likeable enough, Hillary." 

You're entitled to your opinion about whether or not it was sexist.  I am not ultra-sensitive about these things and I don't invent sexism where it doesn't exist. I believe this incident was clearly sexist.  Other women have agreed with me on this over the past couple days.  I watched the debate and saw the dismissive attitude.  I also saw the video of how he responded to Diane Sawyer in an interview yesterday http://abcnews.go.co...


[ Parent ]
I see dismissive and derision (0.00 / 0)
But I do not believe there's sexism in that comment. I am an Obama supporter, just to be transparent.

I do not see Obama saying that because she's female, I see him saying that because he's cocky, because she and he do not seem to get along well, and because she had just challenged him on his record. Does that make it right? No, but

I will also try to say this as tactfully as I believe I can, but I could see a similarity between possible sexism in "You're likeable enough", and possible racism in "We need someone who's ready" or  from Hillary. Do I believe either comment is filled with prejudice? Not really, although I would acknowledge that in a political campaign, frontrunners get VERY harsh treatment and scrutiny and that will most definitely include either from surrogates or other candidates themselves, a certain amount of prejudice.

So basically, it's possible, but I just think Obama was being a dismissive, cocky jerk. (Obviously unlike Hillary or Edwards)


[ Parent ]
Scratch That (0.00 / 0)
That last comment was a little too muddled and incoherent, wasn't it? Thinking back on it, I am remembering part of why I support Obama in the first place.

I can really see now, after reading some of the comments about Obama's apparent sexism (I still don't see how you can see the sexism in it, though I invite you to tell me) that part of my support for Obama was seething anger at those who would say completely inane-ass shit about him that were old, tired racist/xenophobic ploys:

-Mark Penn.
-Fresh, Clean, and Articulate.
-Madrassa, Muslim past, middle name is Hussein, wooo spooky.
-Intellectually lazy.
-Experience is an issue. (It rarely has been. But when black leaders, who get a tough enough time getting into office anyway, are candidates, well they can't be experienced enough, right? Yeah...)

So, I took where you were going and went in my own direction, didn't I?

Let me get back to sexism and Obama. I do not think Obama meant to be sexist, but I do not doubt for a second that he has sexist ideas, tendencies and notions, much like I do not doubt for a second that most everyone in the race has racist/xenophobic thoughts, tendencies and notions. I believe firmly that as they days go on, many of the sorts of things we saw HRC face in terms of sexist bigotry will be replicated for anyone in the frontrunner position, whether it be religious bigotry, racism, or rabid out-and-out hatred. It's a force more powerful than anything else I know of and it seems to appear right when we least expect it.


[ Parent ]
Actually (0.00 / 0)
This is really bad news for Obama if he loses. Clinton now seems like she will be OK no matter what, because she beat expectations. "Comeback Clinton," will be one of the narratives, even if she loses. However, if she comes back all the way and wins, then Obama's momentum might not only be stopped, it could be reversed. Nevada now looms as a major battleground...

It isn't that bad news.  My opinion is that it would show that organization is most important (with obamas being lauded as the best in Iowa, and Clinton getting the guy who won NH for Kerry)

Edwards did not criticize clinton (0.00 / 0)
If you actually look at what he said instead of relying on the ABC report which put so many unfounded words and motives in his mouth that you'd think they had a reporter living full-time in the man's head, you'd see that Edwards in fact was not criticizing Clinton. Marcotte has backed off, and perhaps you should as well. The media already screwed up the story in the first place by insinuating that Hillary was crying because the campaign was so hard, let's not further propogate their lies by believing one false account of Edwards's original response.

Did anyone else just hear that Huckabee supporter (0.00 / 0)
on C-SPAN? 

Ick.

Ick.


Well the corpratists knocked off the black dude.. (0.00 / 0)

......now to nail the 'girl'!

But that leaves them in quandary as Edwards scares the shit out of 'em.

What to do? What to do?

This is gonna prove to be one of the most fascination primaries, on both sides, primarily, whoops....pun, because so many are running.

And we've got more folks running than have in what....ever?

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


Sheeple (4.00 / 1)
a sharp turn toward Clinton among older women when the media, and Edwards, criticized Clinton for showing some emotion

You mean the over-forty women wouldn't have voted if she didn't cry? SHEEPLE!


Banned for posting five straight diaries.


Enough already (0.00 / 0)
She didn't cry.  God.

[ Parent ]
Nope.... (0.00 / 0)

...that's not who I mean. I mean the low-info 'hope' folks who want to follow Senator 'Change' right of the neo-con cliff waiting for him.

The folks who are so enamored of Senator 'Change's' empty vessel campaign that they trampling each other to climb on board and ignoring the one candidate that can both beat  any and all Rethugs and reform the executive.

The same 'sheeple' that turned their backs on Dean and chose the oh so gotdamned 'Electable' Kerry.

And man did that turn our well.

When are these 'heartland' of  America folk gonna pick a winner?

2050?

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
you should rethink politics as a hobby, then (0.00 / 0)
So you think all obama supporters are neocons who think the "hope" theme is anything but a mere theme?  I think that's pretty bizarre.

And if you think Americans are so stupid, you really cannot achieve anything in politics.  You can't persuade anyone.  And if you think so little of Americans, how can you stay here?


[ Parent ]
Pretty aggressive talk for someone.... (0.00 / 0)

......who apparently can't read. Americans can be pretty stupid. If you doubt that take a look at the Presidents elected since LBJ. Quite the collection of statesmen and leaders ain't it?

Of course they have lots of help being dumb from the corporatist press. And folks like you who have no clue as to who backs Obama and what the entire point of his campaign is.

Hint: It ain't 'Hope' and it certainly ain't 'Change'.

Cruise over to OpenSecrets.org and check out who backs Obama. Who backs Clinton and who backs Edwards.

Then ask yerself: Cui Bono?

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
the point is your attitude (0.00 / 0)
your expectations are far too high. that is my point.  until you adjust them, you can't be an effective advocate.  Looking down on people is also not effective if you want to persuade.  I don't know how I can be more clear on that. 

If you think you have been an effective advocate on this blog for Edwards, you are mistaken.  I assume that's your goal.

And I'm not illiterate.  You really have a hard time not insulting people, don't you?  And you take political campaigns literally, which I do not.  That's the root here.


[ Parent ]
Exactly (0.00 / 0)
These women don't remember the thousands of criticisms she received in the last 15 years? Just this one situation? What short memories.

I don't care if she cried or not. The last 15 years have been horrifically sexist towards Clinton.

Was it planned? Let's put it this way. If she cried 15 years ago, she wouldn't be where she is today. She let down her guard because she could/had to.

Banned for posting five straight diaries.


[ Parent ]
Keene has reported and that's a college town (0.00 / 0)


Keene's a small school (0.00 / 0)
Keen's a small school (I think around 2000 students) in a pretty big city.  Bigger is UNH in Durham, about 10,000 students in a town much smaller than Keene.

Absentee Ballots (0.00 / 0)
Chris -

I talked to the Obama youth folks, and for what it's worth, they said they have a little more than 1000 student absentee ballots confirmed.

Youth To Power: How Today's Young Voters Are Building Tomorrow's Progressive Majority


latest from the Concord Monitor (0.00 / 0)
New Hampshire - 166 of 301 Precincts Reporting - 55%
  Name  Party  Votes  Vote %
  Clinton , Hillary  Dem  55,909  39%
  Obama , Barack  Dem  52,524  37%
  Edwards , John  Dem  23,884  17%

I'm listening to Ron Paul (4.00 / 1)
He is crazy.  His argument for not needing FEMA is that we survived the 1904 hurricane at Galveston. 

Perhapes he's unaware that Galveston never really recovered, and Houston supplanted it after that hurricane.  What a bizarre example.


His home school must have skipped... (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
The Democratic Sheeple have spoken. (0.00 / 0)
Isn't that how your brother and you would characterize it, albeit in a self-described elitist fashion?


the Sheeple (4.00 / 2)
Were breaking for Obama because he won Iowa. If you are going to hold me to my insults, at least remember what the insults were. If Clinton wins, the Sheeple were defeated.

[ Parent ]
I didn't expect you to comprehend irony. (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
might depend on (4.00 / 2)
if its the new sheeple or the old sheeple.

CNN's exit poll showed percentage of sheeple voting, but didn't break it down by if they were sheeple voting for the first time or sheeple who've been with the party the last three cycles. Here as the breakdown

Hillary: 43% sheeple
Obama: 33% sheeple
Edwards: 13% sheeple

but Obama also pulled just sheep and look at this on the Edwards side:
Obama: 63% of sheep
Edward: 92% of pooties

surprising since pooties aren't even registered.

but the real question was, who would get their goat?

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


[ Parent ]
sheeple or... (4.00 / 1)
she-people?

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers


[ Parent ]
Remaining voters need to favor Obama 7.2% more than clinton (0.00 / 0)
If Keene is Obama's roof in what's left, this is going to be really close

Wow, those five prescincts favored clinton (0.00 / 0)
10%.  The AP is probably right.  Clinton wins

[ Parent ]
Polls (4.00 / 2)
What I don't understand is, why did every poll have him so much ahead? And for that matter, so close to the election day?  Perhaps it is that the tear thing made women pissed, but it just is so strange that it would have such a huge impact in less than 12 hours. Thoughts?

Former Edwards Supporter, Obama Supporter since January 30, 2008

15 point swing? (0.00 / 0)
That's a hell of a stampede.

VISA is Hungry! http://www.funnyordie.com/vide...

[ Parent ]
possibilities (0.00 / 0)
1. big change in 24h - undecideds making up their mind (potential for anti-media backlash with the tearing thing)

2. polls didn't weigh women enough / over-weighed youth vote

3. strategic errors by Obama campaign - Lane Hudson was on Young Turks show saying the rural precinct he was in didn't have as visible a presence for Obama volunteers and went heavily Clinton

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers


[ Parent ]
And none of these happened on the GOP side. (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
Women went for Clinton (0.00 / 0)
Independents went for McCain.

Banned for posting five straight diaries.

[ Parent ]
AP called the race for Sen Clinton (0.00 / 0)


Polls (0.00 / 0)
Still confused over polls.

Former Edwards Supporter, Obama Supporter since January 30, 2008

[ Parent ]
They didn't match the Democratic primary, (0.00 / 0)
but they did match the Republican primary.

VISA is Hungry! http://www.funnyordie.com/vide...

[ Parent ]
The Intrade markets (0.00 / 0)
are not worth squat for a predictor.  They've swung 30 points over the course of the last few hours.  What a load!

Yep (4.00 / 1)
Intrade = the conventional wisdom. Just as shitty.

[ Parent ]
So... (0.00 / 0)
What happened?

Numbers... (0.00 / 0)
Here's something I don't understand. Wikipedia has Durham, NH in Strafford County as having a population of about 13,000. It also has UNH in Durham with an enrollment of 14,500. CNN has a total of 935 Democratic votes being cast in that county. Assuming no overlap between population and enrollment of UNH, 70% of the town population as being able to vote and 50% of both groups as voting Democrat (to be generous), that's still only 8% turnout. From everything I've heard turnout was a lot higher than that. What gives? What am I missing?

Whoops (0.00 / 0)
Correction. 16% total turnout including Republicans, assuming the vote was split 50/50 D/R. Still seems low.

[ Parent ]
Are the schools back from winter break yet? (0.00 / 0)
I went to college in the Northeast and our winter breaks went until mid-January or so.

[ Parent ]
Why is Navada a battle ground? (0.00 / 0)
isn't that a no-contest big win for Hillary? or does Obama need to contest it?

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

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