How Barack Obama Misreads History--And Why It Matters So Much

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 13:31


In the wake of the disasterous Bush presidency there are two possible responses.  One is that, just like the last time conservatives controlled the country--1920-1932--they are destroying the country.  The second is that both sides are to blame.  They're both fighting, instead of solving the problems we face.  Obama represents the second response, and he is, quite simply, utterly, totally and dangerously wrong.  Whatever his intentions may be, action based on this worldview cannot fundamentally reverse the damage that movement conservatism has done to our country.  Because of the fierceness of movement conservative opposition, his worldview demands that we change things only modestly in the grand scheme of things.

This is what's at the root of the problems Obama has faced recently, epitomized by his remarks praising Ronald Reagan, however you interpret them.  Obama claims he has been misunderstood.  But really, it is Obama who fundamentally misunderstands history, and it his misunderstanding that it is the root cause of the confusion he spreads to others.  His misunderstanding is based on three inter-related things--a lack of historical knowledge, an acceptance of the dominant political discourse, and a devaluing of material causes and conditions.  In particular, the dominant narrative blaming both sides for our political problems, and attributing the cause to bad attitudes in people's heads and hearts, is not just historically inaccurate, it results from a virtual rightwing takeover of the media and many other institutions--a material cause that affects the nature of our political narratives regardless of the actual evidence at hand.

Specifically:

  1. Our problem is not that people are too partisan.  The problem is the opposite--there are too many people with divided loyalties, and this has produced a 40-year period dominated by divided government, unlike any other time in our history.

  2. The problem is not that Democrats are too combatative, just like Republicans.  There is nothing the Democrats have done that is remotely close to the GOP impeachment of Clinton.  To the contrary, the Democratic leadership has refused to even consider impeachment for a list of literally dozens of high crimes and misdemeanors.

  3. The problem is not individual attitudes preventing politicians from agreeing.  There are real, fundamental differences, driven by a widening wealth gap, and loss of political power by average people.

  4. Kennedy and Reagan were not transformative leaders.  FDR and Nixon were--not necessarily because of who they were, or anything to do with personal charisma, but because they came to power at the true turning points in political alignment--or in Nixon's case, de-alignment.

Let's take these up, one-by-one.  The order will change a bit, because of how the evidence flows.

Paul Rosenberg :: How Barack Obama Misreads History--And Why It Matters So Much
Partisanship Is NOT The Problem

    Our problem is not that people are too partisan.  The problem is the opposite--there are too many people with divided loyalties, and this has produced a 40-year period dominated by divided government, unlike any other time in our history.

This is strikingly obvious from the charts in the following table, each covering a roughly equal period of American history commonly recognized as a separate party system.



Partisan Balance In US History

Through Six Party Systems

Control of Presidency, House & Senate


Dem-Reps: 12 / Feds: 2 / Split: 1

Dem-Reps: 9 / Whigs: 1 / Split: 7

Dems: 1 / Reps: 9 / Split: 8

Dems 3 / Reps: 12 / Split: 3


Dems: 13 / Reps: 1 / Split: 4


Dems: 3 / Reps 2.25 / Split: 13.75

Every era except for the past 40 years was dominated by one party or the other. The last 40 years is only era in which divided government has dominated instead.  Thus: if you don't like the gridlock and rancor of the last 40 years, the answer is not to weaken partisanship and further divide government, but to strengthen Democratic partisanship--to clearly define our brand, rather than further blur it.

Transformative Leadership: It's NOT The Charisma, Stupid!

    Kennedy and Reagan were not transformative leaders.  FDR and Nixon were--not necessarily because of who they were, or anything to do with personal charisma, but because they came to power at the true turning points in political alignment--or in Nixon's case, de-alignment.

Let's be clear.  Obama did not praise Reagan's policies, and nothing I say here should be construed to support those who argue that.  But Obama did echo the rightwing narrative about Reagan's political success, and he was seriously mistaken in doing so.  Specifically, Obama said:

Obama: I don't want to present myself as some sort of singular figure. I think part of what's different are the times. I do think that, for example, the 1980 election was different. I mean, I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that, you know, Richard Nixon did not, and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path, because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like, you know, with all the excesses of the '60s and the '70s, you know government had grown and grown, but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating, and I think people just tapped into - he tapped into what people were already feeling, which is we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism, and, and, you know, entrepreneurship that had been missing.

I think Kennedy, 20 years earlier, moved the country in a fundamentally different direction. So I think a lot of it just has to do with the times.

And, in the South Carolina debate, he added:

What I said - and I will provide you with a quote - what I said was is that Ronald Reagan was a transformative political figure because he was able to get Democrats to vote against their economic interests to form a majority to push through their agenda, an agenda that I objected to.

This view of history is just plain wrong.  It's part and parcel of the rightwing mythologizing of Reagan.  It's wrong in terms of the macro-history of America, in terms of where the decisive turning points in our political history are, it's wrong in terms of the micro-history of the 1980 election, and it's wrong in terms of the meso-history of how people saw Reagan at the time.

The six charts directly above reveal the great break points in American political history, where the political center of gravity shifted.  This happened at the end of each party system and the beginning of the next one.  The only exception to this pattern was in the first party system, which started off dominated by the Federalists, whose tyrannical rule lead to the "Revolution of 1800" in which they were driven from power with the election of Thomas Jefferson and a Democratic-Republican Congress, never to return.  Aside from that, the watershed elections in US history have been: Andrew Jackson's election in 1828, Abraham Lincoln's election in 1860, William McKinley's election in 1896 (Karl Rove's wet dream), FDR's election in 1932, and Richard Nixon's election in 1968.  Nixon's was the only one that was not accompanied by two consecutive House wave elections.  Rather, it ushered in a unique period during which divided government has overwhelmingly predominated, as indicated in the chart above.

This had striking economic consequences for tens of millions of working Americans, as the minimum wage--first established under FDR--declined under Nixon, and has never regained the level it had before him:

The wage loss compared to average wages was particularly striking, as this shows the growth of the working poor at the same time that rhetoric demonizing the poor grew increasingly common:

Neither Kennedy (who won with 49.7% of the popular vote) nor Reagan (who won with 50.7%) won large majorities or produced anything remotely like the long-term shifts in the political landscape that Roosevelt and Nixon brought about.  Furthermore, Reagan's election was primarily a rejection of Carter (who lost almost another 9 points against third party candidates) rather than a vote for Reagan.  Carter's approval ratings had been as low as 28 percent in the year before the election, so for Reagan to only muster less than 51% against him simply is not a resounding endorsement of Reagan, and certainly isn't the sort of bipartisan mandate that Obama seems to cherish. Furthermore, the race was virtually neck-and-neck until the presidential debate--despite Carter's prolonged abysmal approval ratings.  Gallup had shown Carter with a high of 43 and a low of 31 from March 1980 through the election.

I've already posted previously about how people didn't reject government spending in the wake of Reagan's election ("you know government had grown and grown, but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating"), and here's a chart summarizing that point--showing that number of people thinking we were spending "too much" in an array of eight domestic spending areas dropped by more than 50% (from 18.4% to 8.4%)  from 1978 to 1984:

And, finally, as Chris recently pointed out, "Reagan Was Not A Relatively Popular President":

Average Presidential Approval Ratings
FDR through current
President# PollsApproveDisapproveUnsureAverage
Net
Approval
Kennedy4070.816.612.754.2
Eisenhower11964.921.413.843.5
Bush I13462.127.210.734.9
FDR9762.431.56.230.9
Johnson8356.130.513.625.6
Clinton83856.736.37.020.4
Reagan13652.237.310.514.9
Nixon9648.037.814.110.2
Bush II128951.541.96.19.6
Ford3646.536.916.79.6
Carter9146.738.415.08.3
Truman6542.043.214.7-1.2


Note the vast difference between the two figures that Obama cites as comparable--Kennedy and Reagan.  At least Kennedy had the high approval ratings while in office to claim some sort of mantle of popularity at the time, though the translation into legislation was remarkably thin--particularly compared to his successor, LBJ, who passed a truly remarkable volume of landmark legislation.  However, it should also be noted that Kennedy was not only elected with less than 50% of the vote, but his election followed the Democrats' 1958 Senate landslide, when they picked up 13 GOP seats, plus two new seats from Alaska--a feat not equalled since.  Essentially, 1958 was the year that the Democrats finally fully recovered from McCarthyism.  They had beaten back the GOP's attempted resurgence, just as the GOP in 1918 began beating back the Democratic resurgence in the middle of their dominance of the Fourth Party System (1896-1930).

In sharp contrast to Kennedy and Reagan. Nixon's 1968 election was a true turning point, the transition from one party system to another.  While Nixon was a minority President, the anti-Democratic establishment vote--Nixon-plus-Wallace--was overwhelming, just as FDR's 1932 vote was, and once Wallace was sidelined by an assassination attempt, Nixon had little problem picking up the vast majority of his support.  Much more importantly, however, the pattern of divided government that his 1968 election established became the dominant modality for the first time in American history, and remains so to this day.  The Democrats have an historical opportunity to change that this elections cycle, and establish another 36 years or so of Democratic dominance.

That is what the pattern of American politics shown above tells us is not just possible, but likely--unless the Democrats screw it up.  And Obama's severe misreading of history is one of several ways that the Democrats could do just that, by giving the GOP a chance to rehabilitate itself without paying the price for its betrayal of the American people and the Constitution.

Finally, a last word about Obama's over-valuation of television-age charisma. When Obama cites Kennedy and Reagan for their "transformative leadership," he is talking about personal charisma, an aura or mood, something that became extremely important in the television age, so far as individual political success is concerned.  However, as Augustus Cochrane III has argued in Democracy Heading South: National Politics in the Shadow of Dixie, the rise of individual entrepreneurial politics was part of the post-1968 de-alignment that substantially weakened parties, and decoupled electoral politics from policy outcomes.  Thus, it is not the answer to the problems Obama points to, but another facet of the very same underlying causes.

Kennedy--elected in 1960, eight years before 1968--was ahead of this wave.  His successor, Lyndon Johnson, was still able to use the levers of intra-party power to twist arms and pass an impressive amount of legislation in a manner that became virtually impossible after 1968, except for a subset of the Democratic domestic agenda that Nixon simply was not interested in opposing, because it bought him general support he needed for his true priorities. From there on in, however, legislation became increasingly fragmented, great initiatives increasingly rare, and sustained follow-up increasingly haphazard. 

It was this fragmented condition--originally brought about by Nixon's "Southern Strategy," both his initial success in 1968 and his consolidation in 1972--that made Reagan's electoral success possible, evn though it did not signal a shift in public attitudes, but rather a shift in elite opinion, and a consolidation of rightwing power in various institutions as part of a large-scale, Gramscian "culture war" or "war of position" to dominate public consciousness.  By failing to recognize and take account of the vast gulf between candidate charisma and major legislative achievements that impact millions of people's lives, Obama is very much revealing himself to be a creature of the post-1968 era Nixon ushered in, rather than a figure capable of standing outside that era and conceiving a fundamentally new direction.

Furthermore, the problem Obama is having online is telling.  What characterized the passing era was above all television specifically, and one-way broadcast media in general.  The blogosphere is two-way, and despite his more youthful, tech-savvy aura, Obama quite clearly neither likes nor gets it.  Of course, he has lots of online supporters who do.  But given the extremely low level of support that Clinton has online, Obama's failure to dominate the blogosphere is quite telling.  It tells that he does not really fully get the very change that he touts, and his glib acceptance of Reagan and Kennedy as political examples--tied as they are to the television age--is further evidence of his mistaking the politics of the past for the politics of the future.

Its NOT An Attitude Problem--It's The Economy, Stupid!

    The problem is not individual attitudes preventing politicians from agreeing.  There are real, fundamental differences, driven by a widening wealth gap, and loss of political power by average people.

Obama has formulated the problem of American politics today in terms of people having a bad attitude.  He lectures us that we can "disagree without being disagreeable."  But aside from overlooking the extreme asymmetry involved in conservatives demonizing liberals 24-7, while liberals barely say "boo!" this simply misunderstands the source of political polarization, which underlies the increasing acrimony. The acrimony, of course, ratcheted up rapidly when Newt Gingrich came to power in the House in 1995, and has never declined significantly since, except when Democrats have rolled over entirely, which they've grown quite adept at doing.  But well before Newt, the groundwork was being laid, and it was clearly correlated with an underlying growth of income polarization, as seen from the following two charts, from Polarized America:

And:

Furthermore, the situation was aggravated by an increase in the foreign-born population, which is typically lower-income, but less able to vote, thereby eroding the self-correcting tendency that would normally limit how far such wealth polarization can go before political correction sets in:

These problems are, of course, much further exacerbated by the problems of mushrooming risk discussed in my earlier diary,
"The Great Risk Shift-A Substantive Fight That Obama COULD Make His Own".  Perhaps the main reason why Obama has not seen the risk shift as a perfect issue for him is something to do with his propensity to focus on personal attitudes, rather than underlying material causes.  Surely, he knows the material suffering is there, but he does not focus on it, and he does not see when it shows him a strategic openinig large enough to drive a permanent majority through.

Democrats Are NOT Too Combative--They're Too Wimpy!

    The problem is not that Democrats are too combative, just like Republicans.  There is nothing the Democrats have done that is remotely close to the GOP impeachment of Clinton.  To the contrary, the Democratic leadership has refused to even consider impeachment for a list of literally dozens of high crimes and misdemeanors.

The notion that Democrats are anything remotely like Republicans in the way of partisan poisonousness is as ludicrous as the notion of George Bush as "a uniter, not a divider."  It's the perfect example of Hitler's "big lie" in a modern American context.  It's a lie so enormous, one almost starts to stutter in response.  There's so much evidence to the contrary, one hardly knows where to begin.  But this diary is already long enough, and few who visit Open Left would probably argue the point.  So I'll simply close with following chart, which shows how Republican obstructionism in the Senate has gone off the charts:

"Case closed!" as they say in the trade.

Conclusion

From all the above we can see that Obama's narrative is utterly mistaken on all four main points discussed:

  1. People are not too partisan.  To the contrary, we've just suffered through a unique period of divided loyalties and divided government.  Democratic partisan dominance is the answer, just as it was in 1932.

  2. The problem is not that Democrats are too combative, just like Republicans.  To the contrary, they are too weak, too accommodating.

  3. Political disagreements are not a matter of bad attitudes, bad manners, or bad faith--at least on the Democratic side, anyways.  Rather, they are driven by deep-seated historical forces, most notable, a growing underlying wealth gap.  It's not an attitude problem--it's the economy, stupid!

  4. Kennedy and Reagan were not transformative leaders.  FDR and Nixon were. We need to emulate FDR, and return to an era of Democratic dominance.  We need to put Nixon's era of divided government behind us.

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WOW Paul (2.67 / 3)
The amount of time invested, the incredible sourced information is enormously impressive. I can just imagine how effective you would be if you used all of your immense attributes to prop up a candidate you support, rather than tear one down.
I have neve seen anything quite like this before.

I'm Not Trying To Tear Obama Down (4.00 / 7)
I am criticizing his misreading of history, because I think it has some very bad consequences inherent in it.  But I don't think that Obama has to be wedded to it, and nothing would make me happier than to see these criticisms take hold, and impact his thinking.

Not holding my breath, mind you.  Just clarifying where I'm coming from.

He obviously has some very strong positives, and if he were guided by a sounder grasp of history, he would be a lot closer to the leader his fans already take him to be.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I think I dis agree with most of your points (0.00 / 0)
Point 1 seems virtually worthless.  It seems self-evident that democratic dominance is better divided government, but that doesn't get us any closer to it just by recognizing it is better.  I'm the GOP has the same idea.  Now, perhaps you think that this should more explicitly be OBama's focus, but this sort of open partisanism seems unlikely to provide the kind of persuasion necessary  to get there.  I need further explication on what you have in mind here.

Point 2 only notes that Republicans are more combative, it does not give any explanation at all as to why democrats should adopt this stance. 

Point 3, seems to be taken from "Polarized America", an excellent book, but I think you've misread it.  I actually happen to have take Professor Poole's course at UCSD on this book.  His most important point was that he wanted us to understand that this is a dynamic process at work: we only have corralations here among immagration, income inequality and polarization.  Each seems to reinforce the other in a kind of dance.  So it can be attacked, appearently in at least three different ways.  Going after income inequality may help, but in fact Poole thinks the real issue is polarization.  Polarization keeps progressive legislation from being successfully enacted in America because there are so many veto players.  This allows the existing policies to become increasingly reactionary.

Point 4, On the question of clearly defining our brand, I think you present a false choice here.  There is no reason why we cannot draw clearer distinctions while at the same time moving beyond partisan polarization.  Indeed, it seems that people will be more open to the appeals from this redefination if the tenor of partisanship is lessened.

I see Obama's argument in somewhat different terms.  Let me rephrase that: I think there is more validity to his argument then you are giving credit to.  My background is in political theory, and I see him as attempting to stake out a claim based on the recently developed "deliberative democracy" approach to democratic theory.  I don't know the extent of his academic work, but I would be surprised if, as a constitutional law professor he had no awareness of the current debates in democratic political theory.  The argument seems to be that, no matter who started the foodfight, someone has to begin to address the fact that it has become a problem and who better than a president.  As a governing strategy it makes sense for a liberal to embrace it sense progressive legislation has historically been stymied by polarization.  Serious reform has consistently only occurred when there was consensus reached among the various centers of power.  What motivated the consensus is another issue.  Anyhow, as an African-american civil rights lawyer, he would be well aware of how civic reform occurred in this country's history-probably better than most.  So the argument goes:

1. Polarization redounds to the status quo which overtime becomes increasingly reactionary.
2. The only way to end polarization is for reasoned debate to gain credibility in the politics of the country, e.g. deliberative democracy.
3. Progressives lose by keeping the polarized environment in place because it tends to work against reform.
4. Therefore, we should pursue a deliberative democracy over further polarization.  To not only plays into the hand of the right.

The Politics of Bruno S.


[ Parent ]
Consensus? (4.00 / 2)
This:

Serious reform has consistently only occurred when there was consensus reached among the various centers of power.

is seriously, seriously wrong, in my opinion. Most recently, the reforms of the Great Society and the New Deal were enacted only under (rare) periods of liberal dominance -- liberal Presidents who enjoyed overwhelming Democratic majorities in Congress. Democrats held both the House and Senate by more than 2-1 after the 1964 elections, and by something like 4-1 after 1936. These liberal majorities simply overwhelmed any conservative opposition.

Along the same lines, James Kloppenberg has argued that the ideals of equality and deliberative democracy are not as separable as you seem to be arguing here. In fact, inequality thwarts real democratic deliberation, just as democracy without a commitment to economic, social, and political equality can actually generate more inequality:

The Virtues of Liberalism:

[T]hose who participate in public debate do not always reach conclusions that can be characterized as substantively democratic. . . . In the absence of a commitment to autonomy for all and an ethic of reciprocity, any group of three can yield a majority of two committed to enslaving the other one. . . . merely preaching the values of deliberation, of being reasonable and learning to get along with each other, has never been sufficient to end injustice or secure a democratic culture (pp. 122-3, emphasis mine).

Which is exactly what Paul has been arguing that Obama is doing - "merely preaching the values of deliberation." It's not enough.


[ Parent ]
The Great society and the New Deal (0.00 / 0)
periods of democratic dominance didn't occur because of any special political strategy.  they were the result unusual historical confluences--confluences that the likely post-Bush backlash are unlikely to reach.  I was thinking more in terms of civil rights reforms--situations were true issues of social, political and structural injustices were addressed.  But even in the New Deal and Great society, the republicans were much more economically liberal than they are now.  The programs were not forced through, as Clinton seems to suggest she will do. 

The Politics of Bruno S.


[ Parent ]
Actually, They WERE Forced Through (4.00 / 1)
FDR went so far as to threaten packing the Supreme Court, while the longest fillibusters in US history were employed to try to block the Civil Rights aspects of the Great Society.

they were the result unusual historical confluences--confluences that the likely post-Bush backlash are unlikely to reach.

Particularly with a candidate who trash talks partisanship and vigorous advocacy.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
You're Obviously Thoughtful, So (4.00 / 2)
I'm a bit frustrated at how much I've been misunderstood here.

Let me try to clear it up--knowing full well we may still disagree, but we should disagree about positions actually held.

Point 1 seems virtually worthless.  It seems self-evident that democratic dominance is better divided government, but that doesn't get us any closer to it just by recognizing it is better.

That's not point 1.  Point 1 is that divided government is the problem, rather than excessive partisanship.  This is reflected at the level of the individual voter who says, "Well, the parties are just too polarized, I won't listen to either of them.  I'll just listen to the candidates and vote for the best man."  But this sort of behavior is precisely the root of the problem, since this is what produces divided government, and its divided government that produces fruitless polarization.

The misdiagnosis of where the problem stems from is, of course, part of the system that keeps it in place.  Obama thinks he can use this misdiagnosis (which, I can only assume, he believes to be accurate) to solve the problem.  I am extremely dubious.

Point 2 only notes that Republicans are more combative, it does not give any explanation at all as to why democrats should adopt this stance.

This completely misrepresents my argument.  I'm not saying that we should impeach George Bush for no good reason, for example.  This is a false choice you are imposing, and a false position you are attributing to me.  My position is that you don't back down simply because a liar might call you a bully.  That's altogether different from arguing that you should become a bully.

Point 3, seems to be taken from "Polarized America", an excellent book, but I think you've misread it.

I haven't misread it, any more than I've mis-read Gramsci just because I'm using his concept of culture war to destribe something other than class struggle.  In both cases, I am drawing from a set of ideas and insights, but placing them into my own context.

I have, however, not fully discussed my reasoning here--this was meant to be a relatively compact diary, not a 10,000 word essay.

Furthermore, my point in presenting this material was not, to my mind, contrary to Poole's argument.  Regardless of how we get out of the current state, it's clear that polarization rose before things became acrimonious. Acrimony did not start this process, and is not the root problem, even though it has now become entangled with the generative processes.  That is my fundamental point of disagreement with Obama.

Beyond that, I do differ with Poole in seeing the problem from a somewhat different perspective in two ways: (1) I'm quite conscious that individual voters are not more polarized in their policy views, but that sorting effects have made the parties as a whole more polarized and (2) I'm highly conscious of the anomalous nature of this period in our history characterized by divided government.  Because of these two reasons, I see polarization as the critical  problem only in conjunction with divided government.  A sufficient Democratic majority could enact policies--such as employee card check, for example--that would begin to reverse the dynamic before polarization begins to reverse.  I am not saying that it must happen that way, only that it can.  But this perspective clearly comes from the conjunction of different literatures I am drawing on.

Clearly, a lot more could be said about this, but I hope I've said enough to establish that my differences are not due to misreading, but to a different configuration of concerns and perspectives--and to the fact that I am also concerned with individual citizen attitudes which are not so highly polarized.

Point 4, On the question of clearly defining our brand, I think you present a false choice here.  There is no reason why we cannot draw clearer distinctions while at the same time moving beyond partisan polarization.  Indeed, it seems that people will be more open to the appeals from this redefination if the tenor of partisanship is lessened.

I do not have a problem with your point.  Rather, it is the dominant narrative, and Obama's uncritical acceptance of it, that creates this dichotomization.  This is further reinforced by Obama's de-emphasis of substantive issues.  If he were, for example, to make the Risk Shift a primary focus of his campaign, this would all become far less problematic in my eyes.

In short, it's Obama's subordination of substantive branding to procedural "post-partisanship" that I find so problematic.  I would be happy as a clam if he were to lead with substantive issues of broad appeal, and say, "we must address these problems, and we can only do so by setting aside this rancorous partisanship." 

Moving on, I have rather complex views regarding deliberative democracy.  I do tend to see Obama's attachment to it within the framework of progressive vs. populist political traditions as discussed by Jack Balkin in his 1995 Yale Law Review article, "Populism and Progressivism as Constitutional Categories".  I believe that Obama seriously undervalues populism, and I have a problem with that.  I believe that the future of deliberative democracy lies with finding ways to connect the progressive and populist traditions through an ensemble of reinforcing strategies.  However, you seem to be using the term in a more colloquial sense, which I think hides some of these concerns without really dealing with the problem. 

A fully adequate response would doubtless take a full-length diary.  Nonetheless, I would certainly be a lot more comfortable with Obama if (1) this were not merely speculation on your part and (2) there were at least some major substantive proposal with broad public appeal to connect all this to.

Finally, I think that this statement of yours:

Serious reform has consistently only occurred when there was consensus reached among the various centers of power.

is simply false.  The two most intensive periods of reform in the 20th Century--the New Deal and the Great Society--occured when there was such a predominant legislative majority that intransigent opponents could simply be bypassed.  This windows were rare, but incredibly productive and transformative.  And one could well argue that we need a similar such window very soon in order to deal with the enormous backlog of unresolved problems, up to and including global warming.

Finally, I think we'd do well to recall the tension between Thurgood Marshall and Dr. Martin Luther King.  Marshall thought about social change very much along the lines you've discussed here, although the venuese were different. Yet, clearly, those means alone did not prove to be enough, much to Marshall's frustration.  I think it is obvious that Obama is much closer to Marshall than King.  That is not a bad thing in itself.  What is bad is that we do not have an equally prominent representative of King.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Make that serious progressive reform (0.00 / 0)
The truly stunning thing about W's regime is that he instituted large scale changes within the American fabric with minimmal backing and a bare majority while Democrats with substantial legislative majorities got little accomplished.  Compare Bush II's legislative freebies to Jimmy Carter's experience or Bill Clinton's in 1993-95.

What Carter, Clinton, and even FDR and LBJ faced was something beyond the party system.  The presence of a large bloc of conservative, largely southern Democrats made simple number counts illusory.  Reagan and to a lesser extent Bush II were able to proceed with the votes of Democrats.  Similar Democrats were likely to thwart Clinton and Carter.  "Rendezvous With Destiny" mentions that businesses supported northern Republicans and southern Democrats.  FDR had to plunge ahead by electing at least some progreessive or populist Democrats from the south and forging a super majority in Congress.

(Incidentally, at one point in the 30s, the number of Republican House members from the 13 states of the south was 2, both from east Tennessee.  Those two districts have been Republican from the Civil War forward.  West Virignia did not switch to the Democratic Party, for the most part, until the Depression. OTOH, it is amazing to see the entire 21 vote delegation from Texas go unopposed in the general election on more than one occassion.)

Carter for a brief two year period had 60% of the Senate and over 270 members of the House in his party (around 290 IIRC).  It should have been a period similar to Johnson's or FDR's 1933-39 span but wasn't.  The lesson, is that a President needs more than the office and the majorities in Congress.  A President needs a comprehensive legislative program.  Lincoln had it.  FDR had it.  LBJ had it.  Carter, for all his great personal qualities, was unable to do that.  At the time, pundits said that Democratic opposition to Nixon had taught cingressional independence and opposition to Presidential power,  No mention was made (that I remember) about the regional and ideological splits within the Democratic party.  Versailles was operating with its usual skill and efficiency, huh.


[ Parent ]
What I find frustrating in your post (4.00 / 5)
What I find frustrating is that you see criticism as tearing someone down.

Right now, I am pursuing a second career. I am changing from practicing law to becoming a filmmaker. What does this have to do with the consersation you are wondering?

here's the thing- filmmaking is all about being able to tear down what you create (that is if yo uwant to really make something good) and recreating and recreating and recreating it some more. In fact, there is a saying- films a made first in teh script, then in the production and then remade in the editing after that. I am in the editing phrase right now of my short film. i spent today working on that in fact. The reality is that if I took your world view - that criticism of my work- which I've gotten a lot of is tearing me down- then I am creating this illusion that my shit doesn't smell, that I can't make mistakes, that I can't be wrong. Everyone can be wrong. My editor came to me with an idea that fundamentally had me rethink some thing about which I was wrong.

That's what Paul is doing here. Frankly, that you don't understand is one of my chief concerns going forward with politics.

it simply isn't a good thing to be this thin skinned.


[ Parent ]
Re: (4.00 / 3)
A great many of us think Obama's political skills are simply spectacular, and we are incredibly disappointed to see him take an approach that strikes us as terribly misguided in terms of moving the country in the right direction.

Often we trick ourselves into thinking that if a candidate is skillful enough to win an election - and Obama may or may not be - then he must know what he's doing and we should just shut up and go along for the ride.

I've mounted several critiques of Obama's post-partisanship in blogland but this is the most comprehensive I've seen since reading Krugman's book.  Great job, Paul.


[ Parent ]
Yeah! as if we have any better in the Democratic Party (0.00 / 0)
pool?

[ Parent ]
With regards to what you've written (0.00 / 0)
When Obama spoke of Reagan in the way that he did, to me it spoke deeply about his desire to implement durable progressive policy with support from all quarters.  Don't we want Republicans to vote for Democrats, especially if we don't give up an inch of ground on pure policy? While I agree with a lot of what you've written, there's a reason the term "Reagan Democrat" exists.  There were dozens of congressional Democrats during the 1980s who openly supported durable, movement conservative policies - Obama, in my opinion, simply seeks a reversal of that situation; dozens of congressional Republicans during the 2010s openly supporting durable progressive policies.  THAT is what Obama wants, and so long as the policy is not compromised, a vote is a vote, whether from Jeff Sessions or Russ Feingold.

Also, I find your argument on Obama's view of partisanship to be somewhat weak.  You seem to imply a certain equivalency between Democratic partisanship and Republican partisanship, that has never been stated, implicitly or explicitly, in Obama's rhetoric. He never says "a pox on both our houses," at least in that way - he is not Unity '08. In fact, I think his critique of bipartisanship is implicitly focused on conservatism - since 1980 (and especially since 1994/2000) the executive, legislative and judicial branches have been largely dominated by some ineffective concert of movement conservatives and centrist Democrats, and that is the system he is criticizing -- too much being done to minimal political or personal ends (like welfare reform), and what policy being enacted is that of the movement conservatives (as in the aforementioned case of the Reagan presidency). While I do sometimes wish he was more directly critical in doing so, I at least do not believe he subscribes to the idea that Republicans and Democrats are equally at fault.


Some Half-Truths But No Whole One (4.00 / 1)
While I agree with a lot of what you've written, there's a reason the term "Reagan Democrat" exists.

It's called "the media."

There were dozens of congressional Democrats during the 1980s who openly supported durable, movement conservative policies

It all depends on what you're talking about.  There were Dixiecrats who had always been Dixiecrats, and Reagan's election had nothing to do with how they acted.  It did change the nature of the proposals coming from the White House, but that's not what this discussion is about.

OTOH, if you'll notice, House polarization increased sharply during the Reagan years--hardly an indication that he built any significant bipartisan bridges there.

Finally, the main things Reagan came in to do, he basically gave up on, because Congress said, "no."  And it wasn't just Democrats.  Even the Republicans would not cut programs the way that Reagan deep down wanted.  And, in fact, for the most part, he never really tried, because he knew it wasn't going to go anywhere.  So, he settled for his massive tax cuts and making all his rich friends even richer--but even there, he did cut back some, in a feeble effort to do something about skyrocketing deficits.

- Obama, in my opinion, simply seeks a reversal of that situation; dozens of congressional Republicans during the 2010s openly supporting durable progressive policies.  THAT is what Obama wants, and so long as the policy is not compromised, a vote is a vote, whether from Jeff Sessions or Russ Feingold.

First off, of course, this is not what Obama said.  It is yet another in the endless flood of exmaples of Obama fans creatively reinterpreting Obama to fit their needs.  But second, and even more importantly, it simply is not a credible goal, because the two parties are not mirror images of one another.

First off, the Republicans have always been far more disciplined, top-down, and unified than the Democrats ("I'm not a member of any organized political party--I'm a Democrat!"--Will Rogers.)

Second, the Democrats have become far less disciplined than they were pre-1968 (see Democracy Heading South), while the Republicans have become far more disciplined in a hard-right direction since 1994 (see Off Center).

Changing this is possible, but not without some serious engagement in hegemonic struggle, which simply does not seem to be part of Obama's worldview.

Also, I find your argument on Obama's view of partisanship to be somewhat weak.  You seem to imply a certain equivalency between Democratic partisanship and Republican partisanship, that has never been stated, implicitly or explicitly, in Obama's rhetoric. He never says "a pox on both our houses," at least in that way - he is not Unity '08. In fact, I think his critique of bipartisanship is implicitly focused on conservatism - since 1980 (and especially since 1994/2000) the executive, legislative and judicial branches have been largely dominated by some ineffective concert of movement conservatives and centrist Democrats, and that is the system he is criticizing -- too much being done to minimal political or personal ends (like welfare reform), and what policy being enacted is that of the movement conservatives (as in the aforementioned case of the Reagan presidency). While I do sometimes wish he was more directly critical in doing so, I at least do not believe he subscribes to the idea that Republicans and Democrats are equally at fault.

Shorter expatriatedjerseyan:

You seem to think that Obama seems to think that Dem and GOP partisanship are equally at fault, but I think he doesn't though I can't provide any evidence.

Actually, that degree of vagueness is all the problematic I need to say, "Something wrong!"

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
A brief response (4.00 / 1)
before I go to sleep (being in London really messes up blogging and commenting). My first question is about the House Polarization - where did you get the data from? I'm just curious, and that's not to say I don't trust its accuracy.

With regards to Reagan Democrats, and this is something that would require further research on my part, but are Reagan Democrats and Dixiecrats truly synonymous? I'm thinking, off the top of my head, of someone like Collin Peterson (and likeminded legislators of the 1980s).

On Reagan's policies, I agree with you to the extent that his agenda was not fully enacted; that said, of all the presidents of the last 40 years, whose legacy, in pure policy terms has been more durable than Reagan's? Tax policy, environmental policy, foreign policy, etc. - he undid most of what came before him, and not a lot of what he did has become undone in the last 20 years.

I specifically included the "in my opinion" part when it came to Obama's remarks on Reagan.  You may criticize me for my opinion, but I think you overstep in your generalized criticism of all Obama supporters on this issue. Though it is favorable to my candidate of choice, given the context, I'm simply going with an Occam's Razor interpretation here.  Given what I know (and what we all know) of Obama, he hasn't, isn't, and wouldn't be offering any defense of Reagan when it comes simply to policy - even an implicit statement of that variety would be highly improbable. Thus, we're left with an assessment of process, in that Obama was praising Reagan in the sense that he was a master of the political process.  Now, the merits of such praise are debatable, but I think your suggestion that interpretations of that variety are totally lacking in credibility isn't accurate.

With regards to your points on party unity, I don't disagree, but I think your points need to be contextualized.  Starting in 1968, we've seen 12 years of Democratic presidential governance and 28 years of Republican presidential governance, and 6 of the Democratic years of presidential governance (1994-2000) were also years of outright Republican domination in Congress.  I don't know enough of the actual data involved to suggest a correlation, but I think there is a certain significance to party unity in having a standard bearer, in the form of a president.

Lastly, I agree with the problematic nature of Obama's rhetoric.  As a strongly partisan Democrat, I don't find that aspect of his message (that of explicit bipartisanship) particularly appealing, but I do believe the idea that bipartisanship means any good idea has to be 50% Democratic and 50% Republican to be false, and I think Obama believes the same.  While he hasn't been Edwards rhetorically, Obama has never implied equivalency.  Indeed, there have been numerous times where he was critical of Republican misdeeds (McCain after the Baghdad market incident), and has spoken of a progressive majority for change, and so that gives me more reason to believe his advocacy of bipartisanship favors progressivism rather than conservatism.


[ Parent ]
Answers, Hopefully (4.00 / 1)
(1) I just overlooked providing the polarization link, it's from Polarized America (It's a book! It's a website!).

(2) The term "Reagan Democrat" is incredibly vague.  Everyone knows what they mean when they say it--or at least they think they do--but when you start asking questios it all falls apart.  But, basically, Reagan's legislative support among House Democrats came overwhelmingly from the so-called "Boll Weevils."  And this is what allowed him his most important successes.

(3) If you want to see a President who got what he wanted on a broad legislative package, look to LBJ.  Reagan did not succeed on the environemnt, though he did start undermining protections.  Instead, he saw his folks at EPA go to jail.  The entire Contra side of Iran/Contra came about because he couldn't get his way with Congress.  He ended up saving Social Security, when he'd long wanted to destroy it. 

(4) What you wrote and what Obama said are simply different things.  If Obama wants to defend himself against malicious attacks by saying, "That's not what I said, don't read that into my words" (which he has every right to do) then the same principle should apply to people doing the same to spin things in his favor.

(5) It's certainly true that having a President helps with party unity.  But the GOP has always been more unified.

(6) You are still reading into Obama some degree of what you want to hear from him re "bipartisanship."  I think it would be fascinating to find out how different groups of people in terpret what he's saying.  Not too much bipartisanship in the answers, I would wager.  And it's this vagueness more than anything else that is most worrisome, because it means that somewhere down the line, everyone is potentially going to get upset with him, if he becomes President.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Reagan Democrats (4.00 / 1)
"Reagan Democrats" and Dixiecrats are usually not considered synonymous.  Dixiecrats are usually interpreted as a Southern phenomenon, while Reagan Democrats are most often seen as mostly Northeastern and Midwestern middle/working class whites who shifted into the Republican column mainly over cultural and national security issues.  That interpretation may not be correct, but that is usually how the term is interpreted.  The term is also used to refer to members of the electorate and not to Democrats in Congress.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
Reagan "transformed" public interest regulation (0.00 / 0)
I have to admit I haven't had time to digest Paul's recent flurry of posts and comments.  But I've quickly scanned a little of this thread and want to add one element with regard to Reagan being a "transformative" president.

I'll focus on the industry I know most about, though I believe this applies more broadly.

It's pretty clear that Reagan's FCC began a fundamental transformation of media and telecom regulation that virtually destroyed the practical meaning of the "public interest" standard that had been included in the 1934 Communications Act.  This included elimination of the Fairness Doctrine and various other public interest-oriented requirements and protections. 

Those "deregulatory" actions were never reversed, though the Internet has opened up whole new arenas for more democratic media to develop (as this web site attests to).

And though I have less knowledge of other areas of regulation, my understanding is that Reagan took similar steps--through the executive branch and largely independent of Congress--to change the nature of government's role in terms of regulation or lack thereof.

I can't speak to all the data and analysis in Paul's post, but to me these executive-branch changes are fundamentally transformative, and are very much reflective of one of the overarching political aims and messages of the Reagan administration--the dismantling of public-interest-oriented regulation (there was also some groundbreaking union-busting, as I recall).

In my view, the changes in telecom/media regulation that were initiated and/or greatly accelerated under Reagan basically undid an already tenuous balance that had been struck in 1934 and was more or less maintained until Reagan was elected. 

These changes, of course, occurred in parallel to and interacted with changes in technology, but it seems clear to me that the Reagan FCC took a very hard line in favor of deregulation and that this has had lasting and fundamental impacts on the evolution (or devolution) of the mass media sector, and its role in the political process and society in general.

A broader implication of my comment is that there are probably many, many parallel and intersecting threads of development, societal sectors and trends that need to be jointly analyzed to accurately gauge the extent to which a particular administration (or anything for that matter) is transformative (or, put more broadly, what its impact really is).

This is one factor that feeds into my bias against heavy reliance on historical analysis to get a clear picture of the present moment and where it has the potential to lead.  There are simply too many variables and interactions that are unknown or subject to a wide range of interpretations. 

I don't claim historical analysis can't generate useful lessons, but I also think it can create perceptual filters and biases that are fundamentally inaccurate (not that other things don't as well).  And given the inherently extremely complex web of "things" that interact at virtually every moment in history, I'd suggest that the risks are very high that any such set of filters is inaccurate in at least some key (and, importantly, unknown) respects.

My bias against heavy reliance on historical analysis is also fed by the fact that many elements of society (perhaps most notably technology) are evolving in ways that create fundamentally different options, opportunities, risks, relationships, etc. than every existed in the past.

To me, these are the elements that are most worthy of in-depth analysis and, since they exist today, are also subject to our direct observation and influence. 

I think its pretty clear that technology is evolving much faster than at any time in history (and at an accelerating pace), and that its role may become even more essential than at any time in history, given that our interaction with some forms of it is causing us to make the planet sick enough that its "immune system" may be forced to reject us as destructive parasites.

That being said, if you folks can extract some valuable historical lessons that can help us avoid that fate, I'll be forever grateful. I'm just getting to the point that I don't see a high likelihood of sufficient payoff, especially given the opportunity costs. 

While my attitude is at least partly a function of the limits of my own historical knowledge and available "thinking" time, I think this perspective is worth keeping in mind, even for those who know a lot more about and have a lot more passion for political history.


[ Parent ]
I Largely Agree With You Re FCC & Regulation--But This Isn't What Obama Was Talking About (0.00 / 0)
And I've said as much elsewhere before--that America per se--especially as represented in the policy attitudes seen in the GSS--did not move to the right after 1980, but that America's elites did.  And in the process, they transformed a lot of the elite superstructure as well, including media, finance and the military as key sectors.

However, these sorts of actions, taken by the executive, and shielded from public view by a self-interested media, are hardly indicative of a broad public will.  There is simply no plausible way to connect Reagan's spirit of optimisim and jellybeans with Reagan Democrats and come out with Mark Fowler at the FCC on the other end.  And this is what Obama's argument would have to be for this to count as "transformation" in the sense he was talking about.

Capice?

As for your larger point about the limits of historical analysis, I strongly disagree.  There are all sorts of different historical analyses going on from various different angles, at different levels of analysis, detail, and abstraction. There are historians of technology, historians of regulation, historians of institutional relations, all sorts of folks bringing together information in ways that cut through the sorts of blinders that you're concerned about. While no single approach can hope to cover everything, the overall result is that we are getting a more and more rich and accurate picture of our past, with that past coming closer and closer to today.

While it's certainly more than legitimate to say, "I don't have time to read all that," that doesn't mean the information isn't out there, isn't valuable, and shouldn't be paid attention to by somebody.  And then, in turn, that somebody can find ways of synthesizing and condensing what is most relevant for you to know.

As for the notion that technological change renders historical analysis obsolete, well, that's a notion with a long history!  And, needless to say, it's yet to proven true.  And I say this as someone who wrote his first computer program in 1973, and bought his first Mac in 1984, so I'm defintely not no Luddite!

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Reagan as "transformation facilitator" (0.00 / 0)
Re: Reagan, the FCC, Fowler and media/telecom dereg...

I think Reagan's relatively charming presentation of "free markets and therefore deregulation are good" message was part of what kept Americans in the dark about what was really going on and its implications.  Yes, this was supported by the "shield[ing] from public view by a self-interested media."  But I think Reagan's alleged likeability and superficial appeal of his message and personality was part of what made this "behind the scenes" transformation happen. 

The "transformations" achieved under Reagan were based on bad policy wrapped up in nice-sounding lies not challenged by dysfunctional media and other factors, but it was a transformation nonetheless, and one in which his alleged "leadership" qualities played a key role, if only as a facilitator of deception.

Multiple factors feed into any such changes and I'd argue that Reagan's apparent belief in what he was saying (and/or acting ability) contributed to this one.  In that sense, he was at least a "transformation facilitator" which, I believe, is what Obama is talking about when he refers to a transformational leader.

Re: the value of historical analysis, your point is well taken that I'm stretching into unprovable opinion when I go beyond an "I don't have time to digest this" statement. 

But I'm also doubtful that there's any compelling proof that the current pace of technology change doesn't substantially weaken the predictive and strategic value of historical analysis, especially when the latter is mainly confined to one or a few sectors and dynamics. 

And, to clarify, I certainly don't view you as a Luddite.  Not even close.  Among other things, your polling project idea and your response to some of my own ideas is clear evidence of this.


[ Parent ]
A post to be bookmarked for sure! Great analysis - (4.00 / 1)
the pledge to "end partisan bickering" is the single overriding thing that is preventing me from supporting Obama at this time.

I wrote on another blog that Obama, when he mentions US history, shows that he wouldn't pass an AP History test in US History and that in and of itself shows bad judgement.

That being said, the Clintons show just as bad analysis as far as judging US history goes.

It is Edwards who gets the historical juncture we seem to at, now in 2007 - 2008; someone like an Edwards needs to be in the next Democratic administration pushing the reform that is needed.


One Out Of Four Lawyers Has A Decent Grasp Of US History (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
From the comments I see in the 'sphere.... (0.00 / 0)

........that makes them very well informed on that subject, as compared to the average commenter, poster or A-List Blogger indeed.

Lately I've almost come to believe the poll that shows a majority of Americans don't know that one circuit of the sun by the earth is called a....

Year.

Almost.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
and why, exactly, (4.00 / 1)
should anyone care about your analysis of the American electorate given you have said you will vote for McCain over Obama?

[ Parent ]
Whoa! Pal... (0.00 / 0)
Obama sez he cares, that's the whole point of this post. Where  you been?

Obama sez his 'bi-partisan' approach will 'entice' followers of McCain into the progressive democratic ranks. So...

Me being already here makes me a potential Obama convert once I drink, drink the Kool-Aide.

But...

I don't remember saying I'd vote for McCain. Checked my comments and I couldn't find me saying that...I said...

I wouldn't support Hillary or Obama and that.....

'There's not a dime's worth of difference between how Hillary, Obama or McCain would govern...' because they are all owned by the same people.

I'll stand with that. You don't like it. Chis don't like it...

Too bad.

Maybe after I'm banned and then 'rehabilitated' by Senator Obama we can all get together and sing Kumbaya!

I've said a lot of other stuff here...some good...some bad. I stand by what I say.

Can you do the same or do you just do the odd, fact-free drive-by?

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
Just as I posted I realized that Jim Webb referenced Andrew Jackson (0.00 / 0)
last year at the response to the SOTU address.

An astute and an accurate understanding of history is an essential component of great leadership.

Especially for a representative democracy.

Jim Webb seems to have it, Paul Wellstone had it, there are books which detail RFK's diving into Greek history/classics after JFK's assassination which could explain his "growth"as a politician post 1964.


[ Parent ]
I have a question -- (0.00 / 0)
Is this history true when it comes to Edwards record?

Blogger @ Firedoglake:
http://firedoglake.c...

"...Mui, I could go on and on about key votes that Edwards missed during his tenure as Senator. And more than that I could rattle off scores where his votes hardly resembled the progressive he claims to be. In fact I could so a whole bunch where, not only did he bother to vote with the progressives, he actually was one of one or two Democrats that allied with the unanimous Republican Senators. We're not simply talking about his position on the Iraq Authorization (which 22 Democrats in the Senate voted against), or the Patriot Act (in which almost all Democrats were cornered). These are bills supported by the Republicans and opposed by all but a handful of Blue Dogs. He also took actions that killed Amendments supported or authored by progressives and supported by a majority of Democratic Senators.

Usually Edwards was a typical vote with the Democratic pack Senator. When he varied it almost always was to shift right.

Here's just a few. He opposed Campaign Finance reforms such as the Harkin Amendment (#155) that provided public funding to those that adopted voluntary spending limits (and did it again when Kerry introduced a similar Amendment #148). He opposed Wellstone's efforts (Amdt #145) to restrain targeted electioneering by tax-exempt groups.

He voted to support changes in the tax rates and estate tax cuts and opposed the Graham Amendments that would amend the 10% tax bracket and decrease the base of the Estate Tax limitations. These were opposedly unanimously by the Republicans and joined by Edwards and 11 other Blue Dogs. Later he did the same when Senator Dodd (#695) made an effort. That time Edwards was joined by one more Blue Dog. 28 Democrats supported Senator Dodd, not Edwards.

During the mad-cow epidemic he opposed efforts by Wellstone and others to increase Farm Safety regulations on sickened cattle, improving the environmental quality of livestock feeding operations, or on the practice of meat packers actually owning the feeding operations. Again, these were measures supported by the bulk of Democrats and all the progressives. Edwards and a small number of Blue Dogs joined the solid Republican bloc to reject these efforts.

He opposed restrictions on Internet purchases of firearms, and supported the "Sense of Senate" Resolution by Trent Lott (Amendment 3150) saying that "militias are just any citizen that has a gun" (not organized bodies under the authority of the Congress and State governments).

He joined with the Republicans to override Clinton's veto of the Nuclear Waste Policy Amendment Act of 2000. That effort by Edwards, 13 Blue Dogs, and the unanimous Republican Senate delegation fell a few votes short. LKater he supported the Republicans on the SS Resolution 34 "Yucca Mountain Bill", along with 15 "Conservative" Democrats.

Granting Federal voting rights to felons who served out their sentences (and paroles) and met other qualifications (Amendment 2879)? Again Edwards joined with the Republicans and a small number of law-and-order Democrats (like Torricelli and Blue-Staters) to block its passage. The vast majority of Democrats and all the progressives supported that effort. Sen. Schumer tried to make drug elimination grants for low-income housing areas available. 11 Democrats (inc. Edwards) and the Republican bloc stopped it.

He supported Zell Miller's Amendment (2998) to prohibit feul economy standards for pickup trucks…again supported by a mere handful of Blue State Democrats and the Republican bloc. Then he turns around and joins the same crowd in tabling Sen. Boxers fuel and fuel additives environmental liability bill (Amendment 3139).

Senator Lugar stood alone amongst his Republican colleagues and offered an Amendment responding to the farm economic crisis (#1190). Senator Edwards was the sole Democrat to jump the aisle on that one.

Admittedly Edwards comes from a State where military base closures and military reductions are a hot-button issue. That's why he consistantly voted against the base-closure process supported by the other progressives in the Senate.

Regarding the Iraq Authorization of Force. Edwards not only was in a minority of the Democrats who supported it, he also blocked the Durbin Amendment that would have granted authorization only if an IMMEDIATE threat by Iraq could be established (rather than a "continuing threat") and Byrd Amendments that would have terminated the IAUF after a year. He embraced folks like DIFI, Hillary, Joe Lieberman, Hollings, Landrieu, Zell Miller, Jelly Rockefeller, Harry Ried, Carnahan, and the cowardly Tom Daschle. Somehow he couldn't find the courage to support Boxer, Kennedy, Kerry, Dodd, Harkin, Levin, Leahy, Byrd, Fiengold, Wellstone and others in the Democratic MAJORITY.

He constantly joined with the Republicans to impede Democrat efforts to limit and delimit the authority of the Dept. of Homeland Security. He aided them in invoking cloture to the Gramm and the Thompson Amendments (#4901) and opposed the Byrd Amendment. 28 Democrats (including Wellstone and Feingold) supported Byrd.

He voted to table Wellstone's Amendment (2487) to condition trade to the Caribbean to international human rights standards. 48 Repoublicans and 18 Democrats opposed Wellstone…but a majority of Democrats supported him. He also joined 43 Republicans and 12 Southern Democrats + JoLie) to block Senator Dodd's efforts to terminate travel restrictions and prohibitions to Cuba.

Wellstone proffered an Amendment (#2752) that would have established a moratorium on large Agribusiness mergers. It would have also established a Commission to investigate mergers and market concentration in agribusiness. 19 Blue-Dogs (inc. Edwards) and the Republicans voted against it.

The Wellstone Amendment (#1747) that would have increased funding to the Veterans Health Admin by $1,300,000. 44 Republicans and 19 Democrats killed it. Edwards was one. In a rare case of Mary Landrieu doing something that reflected her fathers heritage, she submitted Amendment #2323~ which called on the Feds to support the education, economics, and medical needs of familes with disabled kids. Edwards and 10 other Dims supported the 40 Republicans to block this. Boxer, Dodd, Feingold, Kennedy, Leahy and Wellstone must have wondered what happened…even DIFI and Joe Lie supported the bill).

It goes on and on, hate to say...."

There's history and then's there's history.


[ Parent ]
Obama is bad at History. (0.00 / 0)
Can you cite an example of this?

[ Parent ]
You've convinced me.... (2.00 / 2)
But then I'm a angry, DFH, Boomer who don't know shit.

Tell ya, Paul and the rest here....

I can tell when a politician is operating on pure-D Bullshit. So...giving Senator Obama the benefit of the doubt I remain in the....

Thanks, but no thanks on his 'vision' camp.

Even if the best case scenario, that he's just sorta dumb about this stuff, were true his 'vision' would more likely mature to a full-scale....

Nightmare.

Gotta run, here come the thought police.

One more thing....

Ask yourself just how Obama could be this wrong. Go ahead, it might hurt, but reality is actually good for ya!

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


Well made points (4.00 / 2)
This is your best diary yet at explaining the basic point you've been trying to make for a while.

Finally a response to the "can't we all get along" meme. (4.00 / 4)
I am digging this.  The Obama fanatics are young, affluent and ignorant. There is no historical underpinning to their understanding of how we have arrived at this point in time.

Also, Reagan barely won the first time.  The second time, media promoted the theme that Democrats were 'too liberal' and the only viable strategy was to sound like Reagan.  The Mondale campaign embraced the strategy.  Only when he started sounding like the progressive he genuinely was, did his numbers go up.

So called Reagan Democrats embraced Reagan because the republicans expertly played the race card.  Despite this, over 60% of union households remained in the Democratic fold.  This support belies the myth of a Reagan Dem.  Let us not forget, that the religious right was coming into its own--the attack  on abortion rights led to false consciousness on the part of working class Americans.  A brilliant strategy, it rendered economic issues unimportant.  It is a most effective tool that has expanded to include gay marriage.

So, we can't all get along.  We can't.  There are important divisions between us and them.  These divisions are not about the tone of debate.  They are about the future of America--will it be a country of the ubber rich and and the struggling others, or will it be a country where economic justice reigns.

I live in a true blue state--I will have a choice in November


ignorant? (0.00 / 0)
"The Obama fanatics are young, affluent and ignorant."

If you read this blog much you would have seen all the posts by Chris Bowers and the others about how Obama's coalition includes the "college educated" and Hillary's includes a higher percentile of the demographic of "high school or less" education experience.

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
He forgot to mention elitist (4.00 / 1)
"High school or less" education does not necessarily mean ignorant, any more than a college degree means "educated".

[ Parent ]
You Can Be Educated And Ignorant (0.00 / 0)
Sad, but true.

Getting a sense of history is particularly difficult for young Americans.  They have two strikes against them: they're young. And they're Americans.

Hey, at least they have their own David Bowie song. That's got to count for something.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I think you may be forgetting (0.00 / 0)
that once Reagan was shot, but shook the bullet off, he ascended into the ranks of the supernatural heroes.  He was granted a second term as his right.  His critics were forced into a certain self-conscious muting of their positions, embarrassed to speak against the god-king. The Ollie North in-your-face attitude was only possible because Reagan had transcended the possibility of being mean, destructive, or stupid.  He could be mistaken, but he had already expiated his mistakes. He had taken a bullet and miraculously returned alive.  I think it was this mythic event which gained Reagan a second term, not the apostasy of the Reagan Democrats.  They voted for the legend, not for the politics. 

Thus, the Republican political theorists gained another four years of ascendency in which to perfect Neo-Conservatism, and they most expeditiously prosecuted the hegemonic war Paul has analyzed.


[ Parent ]
Actually, Not So Much (0.00 / 0)
After the shooting, in late March, 1981, Reagan got a lot of sympathy and it certainly helped him get his tax cuts pushed through.  But his approval ratings only went up from 60 to 67, then inched up another point, according to Gallup at the time.  But by June he was back under 60%. He plateaued for a while, but then went on to plunge into negative territory (35/56 in late January, 1983, for example), as his party lost 27 House seats in the 1982 elections, before finally turning things around and eventually cruising to an easy victory.

The real secret was simply that the media loved him, and just to make sure it did, there was tremendous pressure on people in the media.  Our role in the terrorist wars against the people of El Salvador, Nicaragua and Guatemala was effectively suppressed, for example, and remains so to this day for most people.  And when Iran-Contra finally broke, the Dems did everything they could to help protect Reagan.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Paul: Nice post. (4.00 / 1)
I'm interested in reading your argument about history very carefully.  In the meantime, my reply to an earlier comment of yours seems at home in this discussion:

Just because 70% of the polled electorate doesn't like Bush doesn't mean they supporting the establishment wing of the Democratic Party.  Case in point, the 75% that don't like the Dem Majority congress.

So, there's quite a population "up in the air" that will be key to this election.

Now, speaking for myself, and for what I understand to be the foundational principles of Open Left, my frustration with the nominally Democratic Congress is their tendency to cave on almost every significant progressive policy point.  In my view there's a generation of rotten 'leadership', deadly 'strategic thinking' and straight-up lobby-fueled corruption within the Democratic Party that must dismantled and removed from public administration.

How to do that?

Here's what I think Obama proposes:

a) expand the electorate.  Reach out to the many tens of millions of Americans that haven't participated in recent elections, motivate them with the possibility of inclusion in civic affairs toward tangible self-interests.

b) shoot for a new kind of progressive ideological coherence based on the premise (ala the research of Tom Frank "What's the matter with Kansas?") that under the right "social and cultural" conditions the disaffected middle-and-lower income former Bush-ites, "Conservative" fans of  the Constitution and "Now-I-see-Iraq-was-a-big-mistake-ers" would see how they've been manipulated by the Republican Policy Cabal to work against their own economic and national security interests.  Instead, demonstrate how mainstream public interests (hello, infrastructure! hello, endless war!) trump  social and  cultural  divisions.

What are the "magic" social conditions that build enough trust in an audience of former opponents to hear out a pitch for a new approach?  I'd say conventional neighborliness and a modicum of respect toward your potential convert's old fetish objects: things like Baby Jesus, "Contemporary Country" radio and Ronald Reagan's dusty old ass.

Again, I'm talking about converting voters, about transforming the structural alignment of their identities.  This is a very different contest than articulating and holding to a contentious progressive policy position within the institutions of government.  But obviously, a winning electoral coalition has to be built to achieve the opportunity to press for policy.

Do you have to _call_ your policy "Progressive" for it to _be_ a Progressive policy?  If it's Progressive, and it wins, why the hell not call it "Bi-Partisan"?

I think of recent descriptions of Gen X and Y women who prefer not to identify as "Feminist" and yet, of course, fully expect wage parity, choice in bringing pregnancies to term (or not), and equal social opportunity in general.  Is there something disingenuous about not embracing a previous generation's terminology?  Or can't one um.... keep one's eye on the prize, and take it when it comes within reach?


Good Post.. (0.00 / 0)
Not sure the oldies will get it... thinking the youth of Reagan days are the same as today...  ol' gawd...

...frame of reference definitely needs to be applied.


[ Parent ]
If only (0.00 / 0)
you knew what an old codger I am!

[ Parent ]
(chuckle) And? (0.00 / 0)
Where in my post does that ignorance shows itself?

(friendly smile)


[ Parent ]
Whoops ! (0.00 / 0)
I'm new to this chain of postings.

I see your reply below.

Thank you.


[ Parent ]
Well then Paul... (0.00 / 0)
When in history has a candidate 'truly' shown himself!

Ignorance or wishful thinking... on your part?


[ Parent ]
Guess I should have shoved this comment (0.00 / 0)
under this...

(2) You're saying what you think Obama proposes.  And it sounds pretty good.  But none of us know for sure.  And that's where my problems lie.  I just don't like faith-based politics.  I like to know what I'm voting for.

Call me old-fashioned, but that's just how I am.

hmmm...


[ Parent ]
First answer (0.00 / 0)
Gee, the answer that comes immediately to mind is James Knox Polk.  I'd say others fit the bill, too.  Read bernard DeVoto on Polk, btw (1846: The Year of Decision).  Great read.

[ Parent ]
Thanks... (0.00 / 0)
Gee == having to go back 150 years to find a relevant example is impressive...

[ Parent ]
Several Points (4.00 / 1)
(1) The low support for Congress is partly historical--Congressional approval is routinely much lower thsn presidential--and partly due to Democratic frustration with their party's performance in the majority.  So the sort of reasoning you're suggesting starts with a muddied premise.

(2) You're saying what you think Obama proposes.  And it sounds pretty good.  But none of us know for sure.  And that's where my problems lie.  I just don't like faith-based politics.  I like to know what I'm voting for.

Call me old-fashioned, but that's just how I am.

(3) The media has been badmouthing feminism since the dawn of time.  What matters is not what peoplce call themselves not what people abstractly support, but how you can frame discourse to bring about change. And Obama's failure to include a solid policy component is glaring in this regard.  I posted my diary on The Great Risk Shift largely to indicate the kind of thing he could be doing.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Three (0.00 / 0)
1) My reply was in answer to your case this morning where you said, essentially, that because Bush was unpopular with 70% of the electorate, why should Obama be concerned about making nice with the 30% still holding out for Bush.  My argument was that the 70% that don't like Bush aren't necessarily therefore automatically holding hands with the policy positions of the Democratic Party.  I think frustration on Constitutional issues (like impeachment) and the war is driving this Congresses lack of popularity.

2) I accept your caution in all of its italic glory.

3) I like your risk-shift proposal.  But how do I know you, and not Obama, know best how to frame discourse for change?


[ Parent ]
Three More (0.00 / 0)
(1) You are making this all way too complicated.  The point is, don't make yourself crazy going after the last people in the world who will ever vote for you, particularly when they're such a small minority.  If it was 48%, then it would be a different story.  But they can only dream of 48%.

(2)  Aren't italics neat?

(3) How about thinking it through for yourself?  A good approach is always to think, "What if the other guy did this?  Would I be impressed?  Or disgusted?"

Me, I'd be disgusted with a Republican running a nearly contentless campaign for "change."  And I'd be impressed if their campaign for "change" was connected with a whole new way of thinking about the problems we face.

But that's just me.  Find a thoght experiment that works for you, and do it.  That's what I'd advise.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Well done, Paul. (0.00 / 0)
For days and weeks, well done.  Too busy keeping up with the reading to comment.  Better, anyway, that I should simply sit down, STFU, take notes, and listen.  I really appreciate all of the work you've done on this.

Agree on the current situation, but (0.00 / 0)
partially disagree on the history.

Was Nixon or Reagan the really transformative one?  And does it matter?  In some senses Nixon started the transformation, but didn't finish it.  He didn't take it as far, maybe he couldn't, and then he got sidetracked by Watergate.  (And, really minor quibble, Wallace was shot in 1972, not 1968, so this is irrelevant to the '68 election).  Nixon, for example, may have wanted to "zap Labor" (a quote from the time, was it from Ehrlichman or Haldeman?) but didn't dare.  Reagan certainly did it.  You may say that Nixon paved the way for Reagan, and that might not be wrong, but somewhere in that 15-year period, things DID get transformed, and both had a part in it.

Anyway, the main problem with Obama here is not that he falsely identifies the transformative points, but the rejection of justifiable and worthwhile partisanship and accomodationism in general.  This point, which you make, is, in my opionion, much more important than Obama's supposed misidentification of the transformative figures in history.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


Hmm (0.00 / 0)
The second is that both sides are to blame.  They're both fighting, instead of solving the problems we face.  Obama represents the second response, and he is, quite simply, utterly, totally and dangerously wrong. 
Or maybe your entire post is post on an incorrect, oversimplification of Obama.

Drive by alert! (0.00 / 0)
Care to elaborate on where and how Paul is wrong. Or are you too busy?

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.

[ Parent ]
reply.... (0.00 / 0)
I think what he said was pretty clear. That Paul was 'oversimplifying' Obama's stance when he says that Obama agrees with the (very broad and undefined) view that "[The Democrats and GOP are] both fighting instead of solving the problems we face."

I think Taylor has a point, and I sincerely doubt that Obama would agree with Paul that that is his view of the U.S. political history of the past few decades.

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
YOU Are Oversimplifying ME! (0.00 / 0)
Projection is always so humorous.

I did not say "that Obama agrees with the (very broad and undefined) view that "[The Democrats and GOP are] both fighting instead of solving the problems we face."

I said:

In the wake of the disasterous Bush presidency there are two possible responses.  One is that, just like the last time conservatives controlled the country--1920-1932--they are destroying the country.  The second is that both sides are to blame.  They're both fighting, instead of solving the problems we face.  Obama represents the second response, and he is, quite simply, utterly, totally and dangerously wrong.
 

What's the difference?  You're saying, in effect, that I put words in his mouth. But what I'm actually doing is describing the approach he takes in framing how he addresses politics in general.  It's a matter of his implicit stance, and as I try to make quite clear, a good deal of the problems that Obama is having stem from the fact that this stance is inherently so blurry.

He wants to appeal to moderates and conservatives, so he speaks in a way that can readily be interpreted as blaming both sides equally.  But he doesn't actually say that explicitly.  But then he turns around and blames both sides equally in his MLK Day speech when he says, "The believer condemns the non-believer as immoral, and the non-believer chides the believer as intolerant."

Naturally, I expect politicians to blur things.  Most of them usually do.  But it's one thing to have a fundamentally clear position, and attempt to blur it a little, to take off the sharp edges.  It's something else entirely to have a position that's inherently blurry at its very core.  And that's the position that Obama is in.

I've said repeatedly that I don't know what Obama's position is, or what he's really up to.  And I'm saying it again.  But I do know the strategies and strategems--those, at least, are clearly visible.

What's behind them?  Not so much.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Why don't you fish at the DNC? (0.00 / 0)
The supposed 'core' of the Democratic Party....?

I've always wondered how do the DNC/DCCC/DSCC guide our party, our positions -- principles -- what the PARTY is really up to?

Just sayin...


[ Parent ]
No you just changing the subject (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Now that I've read it (4.00 / 1)
I think you are right.

Obama's points are being over-simplified.

For some reason, Newt Gingrich and the '94 congress are being de-linked from the (undeniably) 'transformative' stink of the Reagan era.

For some reason, Paul makes no mention of the reaction of the Democratic establishment to the disaster of the McGovern candidacy.  Isn't THAT what has given us Clintonian triangulation and a smug party leadership that believes it knows better than the plebes on matters of war and peace?  Isn't that how Dem. Cold War Hawks like Nunn and Scoop Jackson became ascendant?

Isn't Iraq supposed to be the Viet-nam we won't let the Hippies and Walter Cronkrite let us loose?

Isn't that why Pelosi and Reid behave the way they do?

The transformation we need today is largely within the cultural memory of Democratic Party itself. 

Obama and his coalition of $50 contributors, may not be comlete solution, but the only alternative to him, Hillary and Bill-again, are structural agents of the problem.

But Paul, the charts were cool.  Party dynamics of 1830.  Yep, that's some genuine history right there.

 


[ Parent ]
Howso??? (0.00 / 0)
Obama's points are being over-simplified.

Since you cite no example, I don't even know what you're claiming.  Much less do you offer an argument.

For some reason, Newt Gingrich and the '94 congress are being de-linked from the (undeniably) 'transformative' stink of the Reagan era.

Because my whole point is that realignments happen at these major transition points, and that what happens within the eras is relatively less significant.  I could have talked about Gingrich, of course.  But I was trying to keep this to a managable length.  Those charts at the top of the post are there for a reason--they starkly delineate the macro-structure of American political history.

For some reason, Paul makes no mention of the reaction of the Democratic establishment to the disaster of the McGovern candidacy.  Isn't THAT what has given us Clintonian triangulation and a smug party leadership that believes it knows better than the plebes on matters of war and peace?  Isn't that how Dem. Cold War Hawks like Nunn and Scoop Jackson became ascendant?

In a word, no.  It's much more complicated than that.  And because (a) it's much more complicated than that and (b) it's a totally different subject, SURPRISE! I didn't write about it.

I also didn't write about the prospect of Joss Whedon returning to TV with a series starring Eliza Dushku, with a Philip K. Dick-like premise.  Should I have included that, as well?

Isn't Iraq supposed to be the Viet-nam we won't let the Hippies and Walter Cronkrite let us loose?

No.

Isn't that why Pelosi and Reid behave the way they do?

No.

The transformation we need today is largely within the cultural memory of Democratic Party itself.

This sentence is nonsensical.

Obama and his coalition of $50 contributors, may not be comlete solution, but the only alternative to him, Hillary and Bill-again, are structural agents of the problem.

Say this were true. It would hardly be an argument for swallowing whatever Obama says.  It would be an argument for pushing him to do what you think needs to be done.

Which, actually, is precisely what I'm doing.

But Paul, the charts were cool.  Party dynamics of 1830.  Yep, that's some genuine history right there.

"You know what they say. Those of us who fail history... Doomed to repeat it in summer school."

    -- "Buffy" in "Afterlife," Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3.

 

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Love the Bufy references (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
Paul -- you're blinding me with science again... (0.00 / 0)
Gingrich... you are saying Gingrich isn't a key variable??

I'm confused coz my political science uni professor said he was major factor in the 'transitional' format of politics in the 90's....


[ Parent ]
Look At The Charts At The Top (0.00 / 0)
Gingrich existed with a period of dealigned politics 1968-2008.  He played a very significant role within that period, but he did not start or end it.  It's all a matter of scale.

My point is to emphasize that 2008 is, in all probability, a major turning point, the likes of which we haven't seen since 1968 or 1932.

If Clinton had been defeated in 1996, then it would have been different.  But, of course, he wasn't.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Alternative? What do you recommend Paul? (0.00 / 0)
OK lets say for a second that I accept your premise and your arguments to be true (which I don't, completely). Who do you recommend we vote for instead?

Sure Edwards might "get it" and he might actually listen and pay lip service to bloggers and the netroots but he is a electoral loser, failing to even get 2nd place in the state he was BORN IN, and it doesn't look like he has much of a chance of getting the nomination.

That leaves Hillary. Hillary is a well-known "centrist DLC-type" Democrat with old D.C. establishment support, big business and corporate media support, and she represents the continuation of a political dynasty machine.

She is also a divisive figure with high negatives who threatens to divide the Democrats, hurt down-ticket candidates, and re-unite/re-invigorate the GOP.

Say what you want about Obama, he at least represents something NEW. Even if it isn't as drastic a change as you would prefer, its better than Clinton, under whom we'd expect very little to change and Washington will continue to be "business as usual." And my gut feeling says that he is a lot more liberal/progressive and transformational than he is leading on (supposing you don't buy into his 'change' rhetoric, which you seem not to be doing.)

Obama is running a sort of GENERAL election campaign and doesn't want to appear too extreme because he wants to actually have a chance to WIN after aquiring the Democratic nomination. THAT IS WHAT I WANT TOO, AND WHY I SUPPORT HIM.

Even the Republicans can't stop praising him and once he defeats Hillary he will be a very hard target to smear, especially after so many Republicans and pundits have already gone on record praising him. I think he will be a Revolutionary President and will substantially change the course of this nation and thereby the course of history for the better.

When he's elected he will enjoy a honeymooon with the media and American people the likes of which this nation hasn't seen in a long long time. All the bloggers who spoke poorly of him or doubted him or refused to support him will apologize and lament their poor foresight. Ironically a lot of these bloggers seem to be some of the same 'liberals' who originally supported the war.

Obama will instantly be beloved and will restore dignity to the office of the Presidency. He will have an enormously effective mandate to pass reform. And most importantly, he will be so loved and popular and dignified that when assholes like Rush or Hannity try to insult and smear him it will rebound back to them in the form of unanimous public scorn. He could very well be the savior of this party and our [once] great nation.

Even if I am wrong and he turned out to be a complete and utter disappointment I will still be glad that we tried. If we elect Hillary none of this will happen and it will be very hard for her to build consensus to actually get important reforms passed. Obama is our best hope. Quite honestly this party would be very very very stupid not to nominate him at this point. He is teflon and if we don't choose him we will regret it even moreso than we did choosing Kerry in 04... (don't blame me I voted for Dean... and opposed the war from the get-go)

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


Get A Clue! (0.00 / 0)
OK lets say for a second that I accept your premise and your arguments to be true (which I don't, completely). Who do you recommend we vote for instead?

From way back on yesterday morning:


What Am I Doing Here? Hint: It's NOT Supporting Candidates!

Somehow or another a growing number of readers and commentators here at Open Left have gotten it into their heads that I'm in the game of supporting/endorsing candidates.  Let me assure you unequivocally that this is not true.

After having seen Lyndon Johnson crush Barry Goldwater when I was a teenager, on the heels of passing the Civil Rights Act, then go on to pass the Voting Rights, and Medicare, but then pursue the Vietnam War like a man possessed-well, let me just say that it pretty much cured me of any latent tendencies I might have had to regard potential presidential figures as saviors.

What I am about is issues, values, ideology, strategic critical analysis,  and trying to save our country, and our species from destruction.  (The planet will do just fine, even if it does take 10-20,000 years to recover.  That's an eye-blink in planetary time.)

I feel sort of silly having to say this. But I feel even sillier realizing I should have said it much sooner.  I thought it was perfectly obvious that when I said "X," I meant "X."  But, of course, I was the one who would go on and on about content and context and framing, but when people would misunderstand me, I treated like it was their problem.  Well, of course, in one sense I was certainly right.

But I also say that "when one person fucks up, it can arguably be their fault, when a million people fuck up, it's definitely the system's fault."  The "system" here is the presidential primary process, and although the Obama supporters have been the most obnoxious exemplars, long preceding my drift toward writing more about him, they are hardly unique.  So I'm going to say this once, and hope (naively, blindly, stupidly, whatever) that it's enough, and link back to it when it's not:

I am not supporting any candidate!

But I am writing critically about Obama, far more than any other candidate, and I explain why on the flip.

If you read everything from a "who's he for? who's he against?" perspective you will never learn anything larger than that perspective.  In which case, why not just shoot yourself now?  Because you're really not living in the first place, anyway.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
But what should we do? (4.00 / 1)
We have a limited number of choices as to what actions we can take relating to this primary. We can vote for either of the two top front-runners, who both have a real chance of winning based on pragmatism, or we can vote for someone with no chance of winning based on ideology, principle, ect.

I realize you are not supporting a particular candidate and I don't accuse you of that in my reply, although I do think you take some of Obama's words or stances out of context, which makes one wonder about motives, but I won't go into this on this post.

Getting to the point, its very hard for us Obama supporters not to notice this long-running and readily apparent tendency many of you seem to have to write post, after post, after post of anti-Obama sentiment. Most of these posts oppose and criticize either his rhetorical framing, some sort of small policy nuance, or his preference for compromise over hyper-partisanship (which many have suggested could just be a political strategy).

Us Obama supporters find it extremely difficult to NOT interpret this pattern, which is coupled with the fact that you guys give him a seemingly unwarranted, unfair, and uneven amounts of critical attention, as anything other than you guys screaming at us: "DON'T VOTE FOR OBAMA!."

I read all the posts you linked to but I still couldn't find the answer I was looking for, WHY. Why do you focus so much negative attention on him if you are not trying to support, hate on, or effect the election or a particular candidate? Why the timing if not about the election or the primary or supporting/not supporting a candidate? Why write so much about him if not to to help people consider who to vote for in THESE primaries. But most importantly of all my questions, WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST WE DO (if not vote for Obama)? Vote for Hillary? Stand on principle?

It seems like a major cop-out for you to write that one diary "What am I doing here, hint not supporting a candidate" and then just point anybody to that who wonders about your motives or asks who you think would be the best to support. And unfortunately in that whole post I wasn't able to find a satisfactory answer to the question presented as the subject!

You did however in this diary present one very interesting tidbit. You said:

"He winks, and says, "Don't worry, I'm really one of you," but a good number of people simply don't believe him-and I'm one of them."

I think you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about this observation. I have been telling people this for a long time. The reason Obama's rhetoric isn't satisfactory to the blogosphere and netroots is because he is trying as hard as possible to not appear to be too far left. If he were to pay the netroots or liberals the lipservice they so desperately want he would almost certainly win the primary but he by 'typecast' as a ultra-left black liberal and would seriously damage his ability to woo the independent vote thus all but destroying his chances of winning the general election, especially facing an "independent" like McCAin. He winks, and hopes that we will know these things. Personally I accept the wink and nod. I believe him and understand the 'centrism' is merely a political strategy but that is a judgement call people will have to make for themselves. I tend to be a good judge of character and I think he is an honest, good person, which I cannot say about Hillary.

I realize your main goal in writing here is not to elect a President, but we have to vote for somebody. Don't take this personally I love to read your postings when they are something other than another criticism. None of our candidates are perfect and it doesn't seem much good to me for us to focus all our energy putting down the 3 people that we hope one of which will be our next president and help sculpt the Democratic party for the next couple decades.

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
I'd like to add... (0.00 / 0)
So my main point is what wasn't getting caught up in wondering "who is he for, who is he against?" I was truly and honestly wondering what you recommend we do. For a pragmatist like myself there are really only two choices, Hillary and Barrack, as I don't believe Edwards is still much of a contender. By focusing the of your critical energy on Obama, you don't leave much wiggle room for the pragmatist to decide who to vote for.

UPDATE: I meant to comment on the assertion you made in you post about "What Am I Doing Here." You said:

"and although the Obama supporters have been the most obnoxious exemplars, long preceding my drift toward writing more about him, they are hardly unique. "

You must not get around much. Although I would agree that Obama supporters are a little bit more enthusiastic than those of Edwards (who try to hide their enthusiasm and bias toward him) but far less obnoxious, unreasonable, reactionary, talking points repeating, Clinton campaign mouth-pieces who are borderline trolls and can be found posting comments on many of the top left-wing blogs. If you wanna see any example, just go to MyDD.com and look for ANY POST that is favorable to Obama or negative towards Hillary and you will see how the Hillary camp bloggers come out in DROVES rushing to her defense and regurgitating her campaign talking points word for word.

Maybe its just cause I'm an Obama guy, but to me these guys are the worst of all the Democratic primary partisan types.

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
I Can't Force You To Understand Me (0.00 / 0)
But I can advise you on what to re-read, and how not to quote me out of context.

You write:

You did however in this diary present one very interesting tidbit. You said:

"He winks, and says, "Don't worry, I'm really one of you," but a good number of people simply don't believe him-and I'm one of them."

I think you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about this observation. I have been telling people this for a long time. The reason Obama's rhetoric isn't satisfactory to the blogosphere and netroots is because he is trying as hard as possible to not appear to be too far left.

Two points:

(1) Now, it's not that you're distorting my meanging here.  It's just that you're missing the part where I explain quite clearly what I'm up to, which you claim you can't seem to figure out for the life of you.  Well, to save you the trouble, here's what I said:

He winks, and says, "Don't worry, I'm really one of you," but a good number of people simply don't believe him-and I'm one of them.

But that doesn't mean I'm unalterably hostile to him.  If I don't believe him, that doesn't mean it might not be true. It just means that his argument is unconvincing to me.  And I'm trying to articulate why that is, not through mindless repetition of a few set talking points (though I enjoy a good chorus or a killer hook as much as the next music fan, be it Beethoven or the B-52s), but through an exploration of the Gramscian culture war itself, and the larger matrix of historical patterns and forces in which that culture war is embedded.

That's what I'm up to, and why.

That's what I'm up to, and why.

(2) It's altogether possible that you are right, but

(a) There's no way to tell for sure, and there are others who hold other beliefs, so this creates a further incentive for trying to puzzle out what he's doing and why.

(b) It TOTALLY misses the point that there are massive majorities in favor of the things the netroots want--like withdrawing from Iraq yesterday, getting serious about global warming, taking proper care of our vets, etc.  These are not "far left" positions, but they are what we want to hear.

Finally, to answer your question,

WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST WE DO?

Simple: Ask more of your own questions.  I'm trying to raise the level of critical discourse.  I want more and more people to ask difficult, important questions, of themselves, of the candidates seeking their support, of everybody.  You want to support Obama?  Fine, go ahead and support him.  But don't think that means you can't ask questions.

It's the fricken Republicans who think that asking questions is a sign of disloyalty.  I think it's a sign of disloyalty when you treat your leaders like they were gods.  It's disloyal to the spirit of democracy.  It's disloyal to the Founding Fathers. It's disloyal to everyone who ever fought and died to preserve our fredom. It's disloyal to the leader you won't question--because they need to be questioned, and kept honest with themselves.  And it's disloyal to yourself, because you have a mind, a heart and an autonomous will of your own, and you betray them all if you do not use them.

Capice?

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
capice... (0.00 / 0)
You know a sane man would never argue with you that we should question our candidates. I just don't want to see my candidate destroyed before he ever gets a chance to do anything. Candidates running for president can't exactly be give honest "candid"(where the hell did they get the word 'candidates' from anyway? seems like an oxymoron) answers to every type of questions, especially not if they plan on winning over independents middle of the road swing voter types in the general election. Quite frankly there are some questions I would prefer a "wink and nod" to than a "candid" (honest, truthful, complete, what you wanna call it) answer.

My only point is by beating up on Obama so much and beating him over the head with these types of questions, which I'm agreeing with you he's winking on, it serves to drive readers to Clinton or at least serves to help re-enforce her "unvetted" line of attack.

Of course I'd like to ask him all these questions but in a way and at a time where it won't destroy his chances of winning the general election if he answers truthfully. Or ruin his chances of getting opposing parties to enter "negotiations" with him if they think he is unreasonable.

part of it I think is frustration cause I don't understand why more of the bloggers aren't in the Obama camp especially now that Edwards has exited the arena, especially when straw polls show most of the netroots have swung his way.

I surely didn't mean to sound belligerent or unreasonable I just (maybe unfairly) got the impression you were saying, or at least hinting, "DON'T VOTE FOR OBAMA, BUT I'M NOT ENDORSING ANYONE!"

With all that behind I wanted you to know I love to read your diaries (except when they are against Obama!) I think you are one of the smarter fellas posting on this or any other of the left wing blogs it just frustrates me to see Obama taking so much flak from the left :(

But I always look forward to reading more from you and the rest of the guys here this site is one of the few blogs I read (almost) top to bottom

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
Obama is Clinton-lite (0.00 / 0)
I agree with Paul's analysis.

I opposed the Iraq war from the beginning and I just can't get excited about Obama.  His bipartisanship rhetoric is right out of Lieberman's playbook.  Obama's rhetoric reminds me to much of LIE-berman.

Yeah, I'd rather have Obama than Hillary but his use of Reagan as an agent of change in a Dem primary was utterly boneheaded.


[ Parent ]
And Clinton is Bush-Lite... (0.00 / 0)
So, what do we do?

Obama has offered a door... Clinton has shut the door...


[ Parent ]
You really don't understand that's not an answer, do you? (0.00 / 0)
Obama is advocating that he's the agent of change. If he's simply another less experienced version of Clinton, why should we vote for him? that's the question you are leaving us to answer on our own rather than address the concern in  a substantive way.

[ Parent ]
To be honest -- (0.00 / 0)
I'm beginning to think you don't want to understand either candidate.

My Clinton-lite remark had nothing to do with 'less experience' -- that was your intrepretation not mine.  The Clinton-lite remark was referring to the the types of people he has around him.

I was hoping you had grasped that fact by now with the substantive links I have provided...  obviously not.


[ Parent ]
or... (0.00 / 0)
My Clinton-lite remark had nothing to do with with him having 'less experience' to carry out a Clinton agenda... that was your intrepretation not mine.

The Clinton-lite remark was referring to the the types of people he has around him -- i.e. some of which 'are' ex-Clintonites but are not the most militant one's...


[ Parent ]
excellent (0.00 / 0)
Thank you so much for this.  It certainly gives me a lot to think about.  I have a few question, but I think I will mull them over until next weekend before I ask...

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

Agree on everything except Reagan vs. Nixon (0.00 / 0)
I'll leave the other three alone entirely cause they're dead on, and I actually discussed the Roosevelt vs. Kennedy issue the other night and agree that Kennedy isn't what I'm interested in- I want another FDR.

But I pretty strongly disagree with the notion that it was Nixon as opposed to Reagan that demarcated transformative politics.  I look back at Skowronek and have trouble seeing Nixon has the breaking point so much as the one who brought about the final break.  He sparked the de-alignment if you will, but it was the Carter presidency where the legacy of FDR died.  LBJ's administration, for all its faults, successfully pushed forward within the FDR framework and Nixon generally operated (recklessly) in the same framework.

More to the point, I think the issue would be less about Reagan or Nixon and more about Carter or Johnson as it has to be a Democrat that it dies with.  To argue that Nixon was epochally transformative, you'd have to argue that Johnson killed the premise of the New Deal as workable governance.  Vietnam and civil craziness was raging, but the progression of civil rights through the 60s doesn't seem to have killed the premise of government being capable of good.  Nixon might have, but not because of, or as a natural progression from Johnson's legacy.

In fact, Nixon rather liked using government as much as possible, which was the fundamental notion of Roosevelt's legacy.  It's easy to say Nixon or Johnson shook people's faith in government, but it was the forces at work during the Carter administration that cemented as a national shift that government might by nature be f'ed up.  Reagan had the vision and/or wherewithal to harness it, Nixon just had the vision to personally progress his own aims.

John McCain opposes the GI Bill.


It was Nixon (4.00 / 4)
It really is amazing how much of the "conservative" frames and memes are just hand me-downs from the crazy but effective mind of Richard M. Nixon.  Let's go down the list.

1.  Elections are crooked.  Democrats in the cities steal elections from Republicans through voter fraud.  One of the great myths of the Nixon 1960 campaign (Nixon's paid recounts in multiple states failed to prove this but I have heard this for nearly 50 years now).

2.  The press (media now) is liberal and has a strong secret bias against Republicans, especially conservative Republicans.

3.  The Southern Strategy

4.  The introduction of high politics into blocking the Abe Fortas nomination so Nixon could appoint the next Supreme Court justice.

5.  Running election campaigns not against opponents but against the media (1970, Agnew and Nixon).

6.  False "unity" ("bring us together", 1968)

7.  An increase in the "religious tone" of presidential campaigning (Billy Graham, etc.)

8.  Use of class warfare tones against the defenders of equality and in favor of increased privileges for business and the wealthy.

9.  Nixon's anti-Communist "pink lady" campaign and association with McCarthyism in the early 50's (and use of similar rhetoric throughout his career) was essentially revived by Reagan in his warfare against the evil empire and by Bush II in 2001/2002 and onward.

10.  Nixon constantly used anti-elite rhetoric against the Kennedys, the Ivy league, Harvard, etc.  Sort of odd, that it may have lessened the influence of future Kennedys to some degree and possibly Harvard but for the last 20 years the President has had a Yale degree.  Not a lot less snobby than Harvard if you ask me.  Both Bushes and Bill Clinton, however, went out of their way to show (or at least try to show) they were regular guys and not elitists (pork rinds, George HW?)

11.  Paranoia at the top.


[ Parent ]
I think a lot of this misses my point (0.00 / 0)
I agree that much of this can find origins within the Nixon presidency.  However, for that presidency to be the redefining point, they all must have started from the Johnson presidency which I don't see.  Nixon's tactics may have been brilliant but I'm not sure how much they...well...worked.  Regardless of where these memes came from, where did they actually get their traction? Maybe I'm wrong, but while they may be derived from Nixonian craziness, they didn't become accepted practice at the same time so much as just a new bunch of ideas that might or might not work.

To make a clumsy parallel (mostly cause I still need coffee), Franklin Roosevelt didn't make up his brand of government all by himself, he drew on framework that began with Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt.  Further, a true shift doesn't occur unless it's validated by electoral success and I don't see that with Nixon even WITH the rather exceptional circumstances.  Reagan utilized the things you mention here, but also capitalized on the failure, real or perceived, of BOTH parties to bring about desired change by using government proactively on the domestic side.

I feel like all 11 of these points, while entirely accurate, do not by themselves add up to a fundamental shift in the way politics resides in the collective societal psyche.  They're elements or tools of the grander change which later crystallized into one leap forward, but that's different.

John McCain opposes the GI Bill.


[ Parent ]
Lucas, (0.00 / 0)
Procastination pays off for once!

By answering some less serious comments first, David kindly did the hard work of providing the highly-detailed one half of my answer.

The other half is very simple: I was simply affirming the macro-historical reality reflected in the charts at the top.  The reality they show is truly remarkable, given how much shifting around obviously does happen at other times in our history.  And yet, the cut points shown by this periodization really do mark major transitions, and Nixon's election in 1968 was one of them.

The reason that this point is so important, and dwarfs all other considerations is that this year gives every appearance of being another one of those cut points.  And the better we understand the real significance of what we're going through, the better prepared we will be.  Compared to that epochal event, everything else is small potatoes.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Regarding your charts (0.00 / 0)
How do you reconcile your theory that this current era of governance (1968-2008) has been "non-partisan" with the dismantling of the New Deal, save for Social Security, and the income distribution returning to levels not seen since the Gilded Age?  Things most definitely have been accomplished since 1980 (I'm in the "Reagan as transformative" camp), and they've been overwhelmingly in favor of movement conservatism, and at Liberalism's expense.

Also, your charts don't distinguish between "control" and "dominance".  As you've mentioned previously, FDR administrations had 3 to 1 and 4 to 1 majorities in Congress.  That's a huge difference from 51 to 49.

The charts are fascinating, and should defintely be explored further, but I don't think they should be held up as a definitive history of American governance.  Not without some further analysis.


[ Parent ]
I'm Not Saying It's "Non-Partisan" I'm Saying It's Dealigned (0.00 / 0)
(1) Preserving a healthy polity is dependent on a healthy, activist government.  Dealignment produces gridlock, and that's the situation we've experienced, one that allows for lots of corrosive little deals in the shadows, as the great public square diminishes in stature.

It's not "non-partisan" but it is diametrically opposed to forthright partican dominance.  And that was my point.

(2) Well, of course there's always need for further analysis. And I never intended these charts to be read as "a definitive history of American governance."  They couldn't possibly be any such thing.  Their value is how clearly they do show what they're intended to show--how the broad balance of political power has shifted.  They show the large-scale dynamics, though not, as you noted, the intensity of dominance.

But that's really all that was needed to dramatically illustrate how atypical the past 40 years have been.  Which was all I was trying to show.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I don't get that from your charts (0.00 / 0)
Which is not to say they aren't compeling in other ways.  I don't think that the economic data necessarily has much to say with regard to how politics was fundamentally understood to operate for one.  Changes happen in the societal mind much differently than they happen in the wallet.  I also don't feel as though approval ratings need to be high in order to bring about a seismic shift.  Being polarizing and effective can do it, and shifting basic notions about government can have any number of effects.

I think it's telling in general that everyone has wanted to be Reagan (on the Republican side) ever since.  This doesn't strike me as anecdotal.  Maybe they created him as a standard bearer because they didn't want to deal with the baggage of Nixon, but that in itself is telling.  Nixon couldn't be transformative to the degree you argue here because the cultural, main street cachet doesn't exist.  He's not a rallying cry and can't ever be one.  This is not irrelevant, though I realize it deviates from your initial point, because the ability to run with a legacy is as important as starting it in the first place.

I would be interested to know what the commonly recognized basis is for drawing a line between 66 and 68 for the shift in party system.  Specifically with regard to partisan politics and polarization, I wonder to what degree and at what point politicians of both parties accepted a common framework in order to keep their respective asses out of the fire, consciously or not.  Nixon's election didn't come with a partisan shift or a change in control of congress, so while there may be shifts that can be seen as beginning during Nixon in retrospect, I don't think it was a self-evident tipping point at the time any more or less than Reagan.

We can dig into all of that further of course, but I will agree with you that a tipping point has been reached and that's the real issue.  The broader question for me is the degree to which presidents who have been successful with such tipping points are responsible for making them happen.  As you've noted, these realignments are cyclical and startling in their regularity.  So how much does it matter who the nominee is?  Could a particularly good or bad candidate in the proper place stave off a realignment for a cycle? What about forever?  Could someone like a Robert Kennedy have extended the FDR period another couple decades?  Or started a new era without a shift in party/ideology that focused on social and cultural issues instead of economic ones?

Maybe understanding and meaningfully engaging these more theoretical questions requires agreement on issues such as Nixon vs. Reagan or even a common ground on McKinley (which is still not exactly commonly accepted even if you and I seem to agree).  But in today's terms- if it's time for a realignment based on macro forces, will any candidate do?

John McCain opposes the GI Bill.


[ Parent ]
Wrong Charts, Lucas! (0.00 / 0)
I was referring to the charts at the top, which show the periodization of American party systems, in explaining why Nixon/68 was the decisive transformational breakpoint.  This was in answer to your previous comment.

Your response is rather vague about which specific charts you are referring to, but it's clearly those that involce some economics, which the charts at the top do not.  So, while you are raising some new issues, you are not engaging with my resonse to your orginally coment, which is making this back-and-forth inceasingly unfocused.

By ignoring my response, shifting focus to different, unspecified charts, and throwing out some rather amorphous comments, you then circle around to:

Nixon couldn't be transformative to the degree you argue here because the cultural, main street cachet doesn't exist.  He's not a rallying cry and can't ever be one.

But this simply ignores the entire foundation of my argument, which is based entirely on the most basic of numbers--who controlled which organs of government--the presidency and both houses.  While it's true that Nixon wasn't someone to build a popular mythos around, it's also true that this era is like no other, as I've pointed out repeatedly.

And yet, despite that fact, there are two other eras in which the first President was not an iconic defining figure: the First Party System, initiated at the presidential level by John Adams in 1796 (Thomas Jefferson, who defeated Adams in 1800 became the iconic figure of the era), and the Fourth Party System, initiated at the presidential level by William McKinnley in 1896, which really had no popular iconic figure representing the conservative business estabishment for that era. (Progressive reformer Teddy Roosevelt was the most iconic presidential figure, but was bitterly opposed to the GOP conservtive establishment, which he took down savagely in 1912, reducing it to third party status.)

So, out of six party systems, only three of them were initiated at the presidential level by the iconic figures of their eras--the Second Party System, with Jackson, the Third Party System, with Lincoln, and the Fifth Party System, with FDR.  The Sixth Party System joins the First and Fourth as one of the other 50% where the first president was not an iconic figure.

In short, my whole argument is that, from a deep structural perspective, "icons" are an entirely secondary, relatively superficial phenomena.  Sure, they have an enormous impact on the everyday practice of politics.  But when they are not available--or at least in the same ways--people find other ways to carry on.  When the water's no good, people make wine.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Fair enough (4.00 / 1)
I was skipping around, though not being intentionally vague.

I look at your charts breaking out the six party systems, and note that the line drawn between 1966 and 1968 seems to be rather arbitrary.  Democrats control two or three out of three pieces of the government through 1978, which leads me to ask what makes the 66/68 divide so obvious as opposed to the 78/80 divide?  I don't see anything in the party system charts or your discussion of them that would clarify this.

As I see it, another way to look at the 5th and 6th charts would be this:  From 1932 through 1978, Dems fully controlled 15 times and had a 2-1 majority 7 times.  Republicans fully controlled 1 time and had a 2-1 majority 1 time.  So Dems controlled 22 out of 24 cycles.  Conversely, in the period beginning in 1980, Dems have fully controlled 1 time and held a 2-1 majority 3 times.  Republicans had full control 2.25 times and a 2-1 majority 6.75 times.  So Republicans have a control of 9, Democrats 4.  So I'm wondering why the point of demarcation is between '66 and '68.

As to the issue of iconic presidential leadership, I would argue that perhaps a true, full shift requires such an icon in concert with an underlying structural change.  In the case of, say, Lincoln or FDR, they handled both themselves.  In cases like Adams/Jefferson or even Nixon/Reagan, it wasn't the same person.  I would say that while the McKinley shift is important, it might be a different animal in some ways.  But I have a difficult time with the notion that these cycles exist without figureheads, even if they're nothing more than that.

The shift that I see in the past four decades is different than the issues that you've discussed here.  I see it as the shifting power of Congress that reflects the relationship between the President and "the people."  I'm perfectly willing to agree that tactically Nixon was visionary, but probably ahead of his time.  The convenient example there is that Congress beat him.  Reagan was arguably just as bad in terms of imperial overreach and Congress couldn't get him.  Congress more or less got Clinton, but not on policy.  When Reagan beat Congress, the balance of federal power shifted.

I wonder whether how many potential shifts started but never found the right champion at the national level, presidential or (I suppose) otherwise.  Further extrapolating, I don't disagree that these shifts will tend to happen no matter what.  So the next logical question for me is what the wisest way to harness this shift might be.  Staying out of the way and utilizing it seems more productive than trying to lead it, so are the truly visionary leading public figures (like FDR, Lincoln, Jackson) the ones who react to the irresitable forces of change instead of try to lead that change?

John McCain opposes the GI Bill.


[ Parent ]
Much Better! (0.00 / 0)
Okay, we're really back on track, now.

Speaking as someone with some background in philosophy of science, I'd have to say that the questions you're asking are ultimately undecidable.  There is--and can be--no ultimate framework for saying "this is the right way to divide up history."  (Rejecting wrong ways, though--that I'm more confident about!)

And so rather than construct a counter-argument for you--which I could do--I'd rather just explain how I came to think this way, so you'll understand my motives as well as my reasons.

First off, I'd known about realigning elections for quite some time, but what really got me thinking about them a lot was reading Democracy Heading South by August Cochrane III, which is one of the most insightful books on politics of the last 10 years, IMHO.  Cochrane argues that America today is much like the South of 1950, as analyzed in V.O. Key's classic, Southern Politics, though with different structures fulfilling parallel functions (like lungs vs. gills).  One of these main parallel functions is the way the South's one party system was really more like a no-party system--and the same is true of the money-driven, organizationally starved, candidate centered two-party system of America in '80s and '90s.  In his discussion of what this system is like, Cochrane draws a lot on the work of Walter Dean Burnham, and his contention that 1968 should be seen as a de-alingning election.

I was quite struck with this, but for a long time remained unconvinced, as other era all seemed to start with such clear realigning elections--which I, in a rather auto-didactic, "cut-through-the-BS" fashion thought could clearly be identified by the presence of two consecutive wave elections.  (All sorts of people have disagreed with, or presented different alternatives to Burnham's approach, and Key himself had written on the subject previously.)

However, the longer I thought about the messy transitions--and especially the gap between the formation of parties in 1794/1796 vs. Jefferson's landslide in 1800, the more convinced I became that one had to see critical realigning elections as logically distinct from party system change.  Which is to say that I still think Burnham's basic historical logic is right, but that it is not inexorable.  It can play out differently, and if we had a much larger dataset--as long as the Egyptian Dynastic era, say--we would probably see a good deal of such variation.

The question then was, "What do I think are the most significant determinants, and what are secondary ones, or even accidentals?"  I figured that the best I could do was come up with answers that fit the data, and not try for something that might do a better job for an imagined much larger dataset.  This meant that I should try to really think about how to make sense of the post-1932 era, when there was no realigning election that met the "associated with two consecutive House wave elections" criteria.  And that I should compare the different logics I might come up with against what they'd say about the other fuzzy features of the model.

This is a process that struck me as rather similar to doing factor analysis--you know in advance that there's not necessarily a "right" answer, that someone else could come up with a different one, and yet, there's also the possibility that you'll come up with one that's pretty darned hard to argue against.  You simply can't tell in advance which category any particular study will fall into.

There were three candidate "critical elections" that have been cited by scholars that seemed worthy of consideration--1968, 1980 and 1994--as well as two other, Democratic elections--1958 and 1974--that had also been cited, but clearly didn't fit what I was looking for, which was a move away from Democratic dominance to divided government.  Looking at all these elections together, it seemed to me that 1968, 1980, 1994 represented a progression of increasing GOP strength that never quite overcame Democratic dominance.  The New Deal System was still fundamentally in place (with Social Security, minimum wage laws, the SEC, etc. at its core)--and, in fact, originally I had considered the notion of a Sixth Party System to be unproven, simply because of that.

But the more I thought about it, the more it made sense to set that aside as a criteria, and simply accept that the GOP had failed to overturn the New Deal System, and instead had set about to subvert it.  Seen from this perspective, two things seemed clear: (1) The three elections should be seen as a sequence progressively diminishing Democratic dominance, and enhancing division, so as to progressively enhance the significance and power of micro-tinkering of the sort that lobbyists and special interests excel at.  (2) Nixon was precisely the person who thought in such terms--that of subverting what he could not directly overthrow.

There's more to this story, but this comment is already way too long, and I've come to the key point in my thinking.  Once I got here, there were other pieces that fell into place--not least the fairly typical 36-year cycle length and the sharp break from Democratic dominance to divided government--but they were less central for telling the story of motivation.

I hope this is satisfying to you in a way that a logical argument could not be.  This does not mean that I abandon the notion of making a logical argument.  In fact, I think that the genesis of my conclusion actually strenghtens my position, because I see it coming out in that category where you really do come out with one conclusion that is clearly superior.  But I also know that the dataset is a very small one, and there's just no getting around that one.

p.s. I know I haven't answered all the worthy points you brought up.  For example, regarding potential shifts, I'd argue that it's typical to see failed realignments in the middle of cycles--Grover Cleveland, Woodrow Wilson and Dwight Eisenhower are the clearest examples of this--and that comparing these to successful realignments is one way to get a better feel for the what's involved in successful ones.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Another example this morning (4.00 / 1)
Paul, you read my mind today.  Every time I make my peace with Obama, I see him interviewed again and go ballistic.  I finally came to the conclusion this morning after "This Week" that he really just fundamentally misunderstands what happened in 1980.  He continues to insist that Dems went to Reagan because of his optimism, appeal to entrepreneurialism, and all other things bright and hopeful.  I was there - that was only the nice shiny face Reagan put on his racist, sexist, and warmongering appeals to the white male southern Dems.  To pretend otherwise is willfully ignorant. Obama does this odd thing of ignoring racism when seeing it would counter the rest of his argument, and seeing it when it helps his argument. 

In order to better understand his thought process, I am reading "The Audacity of Hope", and just came to a passage where he discusses use of the filibuster.  He seems to be opposed to it because he only associates it in his mind with the Dem filibusters of civil rights in the 50's - as if it is always used only for extreme and evil purposes.  Gave me zero hope for any support for Dodd tomorrow.

Anyway, the best part of the blogosphere is finding others who better articulate my own vague thoughts, so thank you very much for venting for me!


I too hope someone can articulate what I'm 'trying' to say... (0.00 / 0)
The 'bright shiney balls' in the Reagan era are different from the 'bright shiney balls' now... esp. when it comes to the youth...

The 'youth' that have for so many years been left out/disinfrancised/disinterested in politics -- regardless of that fake covering over those 'bright shiney balls'...

Obama brings in new shiney balls -- better shiney balls than Reagan...  Youth seem to think so... will the old guard who lived through Reagan see through a different lens///

With regard to the filibuster issue... Obama doesn't play checkers -- he plays chess -- With the Alito fiasco -- I was angry, frustrated -- but looking back he was sending us a message -- trying to tell us -- Congress plays chess -- not checkers...  Phoning our players meant squat!  I guy wants change -- Clinton doesn't -- it's as simple as that.


[ Parent ]
Yes... Remembering "Obama' was just a PAWN (0.00 / 0)
in that stragegy!@!

the DLC certainly won that day../


[ Parent ]
In all seriousness... (0.00 / 0)
If you think Obama was playing with the "Queen" on his one - willingly --- then you should come out and say so...

If so, then the Democratic Party is truly screwed...  Edwards is not our saviour, and certainly, obviously not Clinton.

The supreme court fiasco really played out -- how much the Bush -- et. old nixon/ford cheney guard were in control.

This is deep...  I want to believe there is some hope.


[ Parent ]
Re: (0.00 / 0)
I seem to recall Reagan being pretty successful in eviscerating the labor movement and decisively shifting the playing field in favor of management.  Now, maybe I've bought a media narrative too.

Since I think unions are the key to just about everything progressives want to accomplish, including getting Democrats elected, this strikes me as pretty important to sort out.


Is This A Criticism of Me? Or Obama? (0.00 / 0)
I have no doubt that Reagan had an enourmous pernicious impact on our country.  But he didn't go before the American people, and get them all enthused over busting unions because of his spirit of optimism.  And unless you can convince me that he did, then Obama's narrative is simply mistaken.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
What? (4.00 / 1)
If Obama was writing his memoirs, I might agree with many of your points.  But, please!  He's running for the highest national office today -- in 2008 -- asking for votes from an electorate that on the whole is relatively apathetic and influenced by media-driven memories of the most admired leaders.  He was not trying to write a treatise on who was the truly transformational leader.  Get a grip!

How about you get one and realize that (0.00 / 0)
he is applying for the position of the highest office in the land,a nd that therefore we should know who he is and what he means behind stump speeches and a pretty thin biography?

[ Parent ]
He did write his memoir (0.00 / 0)
His book "the Audacity of Hope" makes the same arguments.  Right down to Bush's "elections have consequences" thesis on why it is wrong to filibuster extreme judicial nominees.

I do applaud  Obama for bringing new people into the process.  I just wish he were doing it with the truth, and real progressive goals instead of a personality cult.  How many of these people will stay progressives when the glamour has gone and Dennis Kucinich is the spokesperson? 


[ Parent ]
This is a remarkable piece of work. (0.00 / 0)
You have taken the ideological argument and provided a statistical basis for it, Paul.  Bravo!  And the question becomes: If Obama proposes to govern by consensus, has he the integrity to include this analysis in his narrative, thus demonstrating an ability to form consensus by accommodating a point of view more clear-seeing than his own?  Or is he so committed to his game plan as to be too inflexible to include the valid contributions of his natural allies? This is his chance to show that he can indeed form a consensus.  Accommodation is good--- but it is best when one is accommodating one's friends.  Accommodation of one's enemies shows generosity, but calls into question one's judgment.

Selling Bipartisan Snake Oil (0.00 / 0)
The real "fantasy" of this campaign season is the idea that Republicans, who know only how to conduct a scorched-earth, rip-up-the-tracks style of politics, can be engaged in any meaningful bipartisanship.  Republicans will not respect any mandate for change.

Will Mitch McConnell and John Boehner be moved by any mandates for "transformational change". It is a joke even to ask.

If Ms. Clinton is sent to the sidelines, we Democrats may soon have the biggest case of buyer's remorse ever seen.


Obama fans vs. supporters. (4.00 / 1)
To be a supporter of a candidate, you need to allow yourself to decide whether you agree or disagree with the myriad of policies the candidate says he/she stands for.  Then you must decide whether or not you believe the positions the candidate holds. Hell, you may even want to influence the campaign to re-evaluate based on your perceptions.

Criticism, whether it is light or heavy, harsh or fair, right or wrong needs to be evaluated based on its merits.

I agree with the premise of this critique, but I am not an Obama supporter, and that may be expected by some as a lack of impartiality.

I do suspect, however, that a lot of his "Supporters" cringed when they saw the video of his statements about Reagan and his impact, while the "Fans" just cheered him along.


Liberal Reagan (4.00 / 1)
In my case, I'd heard the idea of Obama being the "liberal Reagan" often enough before this interview that I just instantly took his comments in that vain.  When I cringe is every time he says tax relief.

[ Parent ]
Here, Let Me Try... (4.00 / 1)
I've done this successfully once before. Don't remember if it was here or some other Soapblox site.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
Won't do that again. (0.00 / 0)
crap crap crap

[ Parent ]
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