On Abandoning The Democratic Party

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Aug 20, 2007 at 16:02


Via Down With Tyranny, it is now clear that Chris Carney, the new Democratic US House member from PA-10, has abandoned the Democratic Party:

Carney's been wooed by several of the presidential campaigns, but has no plans to endorse anytime soon.

His personal choice, though, would be a ticket featuring independent-minded Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

"It's kind of where I think government should be. More independent, less partisan-oriented, just wanting to do the right thing," said Carney.

As for the impact of Clinton on his re-election, Carney says he's not worried.

"Certainly we are not Hillary Clinton," he said. "We don't govern like she does."

Wow, we certainly have a turkey on our hands here, as Carney endorses a ticket containing two non-Democrats for President. This passage brings to mind the bylaws of the Pennsylvania State Democratic Party (PDF), where I serve on the state committee:

[Section 2A]: No person shall be eligible to serve as a member or officer of any Democratic committee as provided in Section 1 of this rule who: (…)

[Section 2A (3)] by voice, vote, financial support or otherwise has, within two years, supported a candidate in a general or special election opposed to the duly nominated candidate of the Democratic Party in that election, except as provided in paragraph (c) of this Section.(…)

[Section 2C] Those Democratic candidates who cross-file for an office in which cross filing is permitted by law and Democratic candidates running as write-ins and those persons supporting such candidates are exempt from paragraph (a) of this Section.

Through this statement, Chris Carney has now rendered himself ineligible to hold Democratic Party office in Pennsylvania for the next two years. If he sits on the state committee, which I do not believe he does, I will introduce a motion at the next state committee meeting to have him removed from the committee.

More in the extended entry.

Chris Bowers :: On Abandoning The Democratic Party
Interestingly, at the same time that Carney was endorsing non-Democrats for President, and local papers were writing up the dispute between Carney and Howie Klein of Blue America, Blue America was also endorsing a non-Democrat who is running for Congress in the Pennsylvania 3rd congressional district, Steve Porter. So, both sides of this dispute were simultaneously moving outside the Democratic fold. Now, I've made my disagreement with Blue America on this decision clear in a number of ways, both in public and in private. I don't want to open up the specifics of this disagreement here. Instead, I will simply say that Act Blue is no longer accepting donations for Steve Porter, and that Howie Klein and I remain on good terms. I also think, like BooMan, that Mike Waltner looks like a very good candidate to support in the Democratic primary for PA-03.

Instead of going into the specifics of either case, I would rather discuss in a more generalized way both the dangers I see in moving outside the Democratic coalition for progressives, and how ideology and partisanship are not incompatible concepts. First, dealing with the former, I primarily view the Democratic Party as a set of agreed upon rules for handling intra-coalition disputes among progressives, liberals, and moderates. Through the primary system and open elections for Democratic Party office, progressives, liberals and moderates have a, available, democratic, and legal means of settling disputes that include, but are not limited to, what ideological positions local and national parties adopt, what candidates will represent the coalition in general elections, and who will hold leadership positions within the coalition. I feel strongly that if we do not respect these means of intra-coalition democracy, no matter which ideological direction we are abandoning it from, control of the coalition will further devolve primarily into a series of power structures determined by personal relationships and money. If we have no agreed upon, democratic rules for settling disputes between coalition members, the threat of Naderism and Liebermanism becomes all the more extreme. This is why I feel very strongly both about increasing intra-coalition democracy, and about always availing one's self of the channels in place of splitting off and acting independently.

Second, operating within the partisan framework I describe above, which I view as primarily a democratic, coalition building structure, is not incompatible with an ideological outlook on American politics. As I see it, there is nothing stopping anyone from taking an ideological approach within a partisan framework. Through primary challenges (such as we saw in Connecticut last year or Maryland 4th this year), runs for local party office (the silent revolution that I have engaged in with so many other local activists), having elected members of the coalition hold of legislation (as the progressives did for a while on the Iraq supplemental) and other means, there are many ways to try and leverage progressive strength within an intra-coalition, democratic, partisan framework. In my very strongly held view, it is only when those avenues of intra-coalition / intra-party democracy break down or cease to exist that one can justifiably leave the coalition and begin taking steps independently of the will of the coalition. Until that day comes, and I will fight like hell to make sure that it never does, I will consider myself a partisan, progressive Democrat to the core. Further, as I discussed last week, the historical development of the current manifestation of the two partisan coalitions is intimately connected with ideological concerns, anyway.

Now, I know that individual attachment to political parties has been in decline for decades, as has been the relative influence of political parties over the broader political ecosystems. The rise of self-identified independents and the rise non-party committee organizations within our political system have both been documented for time now. Further, failures of the Democratic Congress on FISA, and the inability of the Congress to begin troop redeployment in Iraq, has left many disillusioned with the new congress. As such, it might seem strange to many that I am making the case for progressives to avail themselves of the Democratic Party even more than they have in the past. However, in closing, I want to argue that the case I am laying out here is not simply strategic, but also progressive and values-based. It is, as I see it, an argument that we progressives support democratic means of settling our internal disputes. If we do not use democratic means of settling our own disputes, then what means do we have to root out injustice and power imbalances within our own midst? The progressive coalition, in order to be progressive, I think must also be a democratic coalition. From what I understand it, the decision by Blue America was democratic within their operations, and so I don't have any particular argument with them in this case, especially since I am not a member of that PAC. That was their autonomous decision to make, even if I think it weakens their hand in future Democratic primaries.  However, I will never support the Chris Carney's or Steve Porter's of the world even before ideological issues are taken into account, due to their rather flagrant flaunting of intra-coalition democracy. They have not respected those rules themselves, and have, in a rather undemocratic and unprogressive fashion, taken their own personal interests as more important than those of the coalition as a whole.

I hope that makes my positions on ideology and partisanship clear. I am eager to see what others think on these matters. Oh, and before you ask, Bernie Sanders won the Vermont Democratic primary for Senate last year. He just turned down the nomination, and there was no Democratic candidate.

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What does this statement reveal? (0.00 / 0)
I hope Carney rethinks and recants his comments. At the same time, what he is saying is relevant to the questions you raised in your diary http://www.openleft....

Clinton at the head of the ticket could cause serious problems for Dems running for Congress in many states.  If we don't extend our majorities in the House and Senate forget about enacting a progressive agenda in 2009 regardless of whom is President.


PVI (0.00 / 0)
Carney presents a unique case in terms of just how red his district is (and the circumstances under which he was able to win), but while that may excuse a certain amount of disloyalty in roll call votes, this is just ridiculous.  Does he really believe that not one Democrat running for President would be a better leader than Hagel?  Not even Bill Richardson?

How did he violate those bylaws? (0.00 / 0)
He spoke in favor of two people who are not running for president and against someone who might be the duly nominated candidate of the Democratic Party.

John McCain opposes the GI Bill.

two different issues (0.00 / 0)
Yes, you should throw the hammer with his push for a non-Democratic candidate (and I'm with Howie in thinking the netroots should write him off).

That said, his second point about Hillary destroying down-ballot races is something that will keep you very busy if you write up every time an elected brings up this point. He is wrong on the first point, but the second is something that hasn't been significantly explored. People are scared...for good reason.


Great post (0.00 / 0)
This party is the best avenue for the social changes we want absent major structural changes in how we do elections.

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Sen. Daniel Inouye, Is Worse Than Carney! (0.00 / 0)
If Carney can be removed, what about this:  "In April, at a Republican ceremony honoring Stevens, Inouye delighted the crowd when he said, "We call each other brothers."

"I know this is a violation of our party rules," he continued, "but I have contributed to Ted's campaign, and he has contributed to my campaign."

He and Stevens have been bookends on key panels. Inouye chairs the Commerce Committee and named Stevens vice chair, an honorific step up from ranking Republican; Inouye chairs the Defense Appropriations Committee, where Stevens also is the ranking Republican." http://archives.seat...


Alaska/Hawaii (0.00 / 0)
Are a special case.  They have a fairly open informal agreement to back each other in Senate voting.  I guess they feel a little left out compared to the mainland 48.

Inyoue and Stevens have gone along with each other on bills numerous times. 

Not saying it's right (or wrong) just explaining there's a different phenomenon at work there.


[ Parent ]
also they have... (4.00 / 1)
a world war II veteran bond from what I understand.

[ Parent ]
No, not as bad (0.00 / 0)
Inouye's not remotely as bad. Sure, the Alaska-Hawaii bond makes him do some pretty stupid things in support of Stevens, but he's generally a solid progressive and frankly him writing the occasional check to Stevens is not that important in the grand scheme of things. Whereas Carney's actively doing harm to the entire Democratic Party with his comments, Inouye's just a little too friendly with one senile old man.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

[ Parent ]
I'm disgusted with myself, because, (0.00 / 0)
On September 12th, 2006, at the behest of John Kerry, I contributed $25 to Chris Carney. He seems to have been one of the worst of several dozen candidates I contributed to last year, but clearly I need to do a better job vetting my contributions next time around.

In 2006, I took suggestions from many orgs, including MoveOn, DFA, ActBlue netroots page, etc. DFA had the most cost effective suggestions for contributions. Now I have two questions:

(1) Is there some type of easy to apply idealogical test I can apply when I am contributing to candidates outside my state, where I don't have much first hand info? Clearly, relying on Kerry's recommendation was not adequate in this case.

(2) I'd like to send a nasty note to Carney telling him that I regret my contribution. How can I briefly summarize his faults?


Threads coming together (0.00 / 0)
In Illinois we have a Bush Dog named Melissa Bean. She looks like Carney in a lot of ways, but has always been loyal to the Democratic party (except in her votes). Now she has a third party candidate in Bill Scheurer who took 5% of the vote last year... Bill's wife, Randi, is now running against Bean in the Democratic primary. More than that, the Scheurer's apparently have a deal in hand where, should Randi win (she won't) Bill will drop his third party bid. Now, Melissa Bean is clearly a Bush Dog and we want the views that represent her district changed, but what a mess.

Gary and I had a nice little discussion about this at PrairieStateBlue with Gary arguing the merits of challenging Bean by any means necessary and me arguing for against the approach of the Scheurers. It is a total mess whatever your goals...


I think (0.00 / 0)
it would be difficult as a voter to take a candidate seriously whose spouse is also running for the same office. 

As for Carney, I too donated to him, the night I discovered how badly he did in the Republican primary.  Well, it was good to gain a seat but obviously I am otherwise very disappointed. 
I'll probably send him a letter too.

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


[ Parent ]
You're own Matt Stoller showed us this morning... (0.00 / 1)
Hi...random Conservative here to try and kindly teach you guys how to operate effectively,

Did anyone watch Openleft.com co-creator Matt Stoller this morning on C-Span? I hope so. If you did a guy named "Andrew" from San Diego (yes, it's me) wrote in a harsh (I apologize it was maybe a little to harsh) letter asking Stoller to back up much of his assertions. These were easy assertions too:

- Matt said the Republican party was based on racism and bigotry. So I asked Matt why was it that Pres Bush's cabinet was the most diverse ever in American history while President Clinton's cabinet was almost exclusively white and male. Matt didn't address this question at all. (Maybe I should've dug up a true racist like San Francisco Democrat city council member Sandoval who is well know for his anti-semetic rants, his anti-Chinese rants, etc).

- Matt said the Clinton years were "years of peace". So I asked Matt what of Bosnia and Somalia then - the so called "wars only liberals could love". Both conflicts are well documented and in fact the Balkans situation to this day is not resolved. Again, Matt chose not to answer.

- I mentioned that terrorism increased in scope and frequency during the Clinton years. Matt did address this point claiming that the statistics prove this false. But do they? We're talking terror attacks against US targets so let's count them up. Clinton years saw the World Trade Center (the first attack), Khobar Towers, embassies in east Africa, and USS Cole. Bush years saw 9/11 and...and...hmmmm nothing else. Clinton did nothing and emboldened terrorists to increase the bravado of their attacks, progressing from a secretive bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 to a brazen attack on a US warship in Oct of 2000. Bush acted instantly and effectively after 9/11 and we've been safe on our home turf ever since.

My advice then to you on the left is this:

1) Actually discuss the issues especially when right wing knuckleheads like me challenge you.

2) Stop with the constant name calling. You guys say "George Bush" more than we Conservatives do because every answer to every question on every issue you start off with "George Bush" and then segue into some loose littany of complaints and blames against the President.

3) Be brave enough to admit when you are wrong (as Matt did not do this morning). And admit also who you are whether socialist, marxist, whatever.


reply (4.00 / 4)

Matt said the Republican party was based on racism and bigotry. So I asked Matt why was it that Pres Bush's cabinet was the most diverse ever in American history while President Clinton's cabinet was almost exclusively white and male. Matt didn't address this question at all. (Maybe I should've dug up a true racist like San Francisco Democrat city council member Sandoval who is well know for his anti-semetic rants, his anti-Chinese rants, etc).

So Bush puts a band-aid on a sucking chest wound and that satisfies you the Republican party doesn't have a fundamental problem with racism?  The South isn't voting Democratic these days because LBJ helped blacks get the vote.  The shenanigans in Ohio, the primarily black "felons" thrown off the rolls in fla in 2000, the racist ads against Harold Ford ("Call me!") and not to forget Willie Horton. 

Bush's DOJ has purged all the non-partisan lawyers out of the civil rights division, and had Monica Goodling replace them with Republican loyalists.  They have prosecuted exactly one civil rights violation by a state - the first ever claim of white disenfranchisement while approving the Georgia and Texas redistricting plans, as well as a number of state ID laws that those non-partisan laywers said would discriminate unduly against minority voters.

Let's not forget the overtly racist crowd like Hunter and Tancredo, both Presidential candidates for your party.  Or how about the outrage on the right that a Muslim Democrat would prefer to swear an oath of office on the Koran instead of the bible?  Oh and the Ron Paul crowd of giant wall builders and those that want to deny birthright citizenship to brown people.

Further, your characterization of Clinton's cabinet is specious.  From the Wapo:


Clinton, who set a new standard with his appointments of women and minorities to Cabinet-level positions. "Over eight years and 29 appointments, Clinton had in his Cabinet five women, seven African-Americans, three Hispanics (one of them named to two posts) and one Asian-American,"

11 minorities out of 29 is not "almost exclusively" white male.

You go on:


Matt said the Clinton years were "years of peace". So I asked Matt what of Bosnia and Somalia then - the so called "wars only liberals could love". Both conflicts are well documented and in fact the Balkans situation to this day is not resolved. Again, Matt chose not to answer.

Somalia was George Bush Sr's idea.  Bosnia wasn't exactly started by the US.  You do understand the difference between peacekeeping/humanitarian intervention and actual war by the US on a soverign country right?  Apparently unless the entire world was at full peace Matt can't characterize the Clinton years as peaceful.  Bush has been in a self-declared state of war since at least December 2001 (campaign on Afghanistan).  Clinton had the Kosovo bombing which lasted weeks and resulted in 0 US deaths.

Balkans not resolved?  By what standard?  It's peaceful.  Yes, there is underlying tension.  Shit, there are southerners who still call the civil war the "war of northern aggression" shall we say that the civil war is "unresolved" and Lincoln's presidency is a failure?

and more:


I mentioned that terrorism increased in scope and frequency during the Clinton years. Matt did address this point claiming that the statistics prove this false. But do they? We're talking terror attacks against US targets so let's count them up. Clinton years saw the World Trade Center (the first attack), Khobar Towers, embassies in east Africa, and USS Cole. Bush years saw 9/11 and...and...hmmmm nothing else. Clinton did nothing and emboldened terrorists to increase the bravado of their attacks, progressing from a secretive bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 to a brazen attack on a US warship in Oct of 2000. Bush acted instantly and effectively after 9/11 and we've been safe on our home turf ever since.

Your standard here is absurd, but since you include the Khobar Towers and USS Cole, then Bush must account for every IED and mortar round into the Green Zone in Iraq as "attacks on US targets."  You also forgot the unresolved Anthrax attacks too.

Further you know full well Clinton did more than "nothing" since right wingers (hopefully not including you) accused him of "wagging the dog" when he attempted to kill OBL in 1998.  I'd also say coming to the rescue of the largely muslim albanians in Kosovo did a lot of good for the US image among muslims. 

Finally, it never ceases to amaze me that Right wingers like you blame clinton for doing nothing about the Cole (which happened in the trailing moments of his presidency) yet Bush did nothing about it either!  You can't use his post 9-11 response as a response to the Cole - any president would have had to act after 9-11.  Bush did nothing about the Cole for 8 whole months after he took office.  He went on vacation after being warned Al Qaeda was "determined to attack in the US."  According to Ron Suskind he told his CIA briefer "well, you've covered your ass"

I don't blame Matt for not responding.  Your criticisms are factually laughable and the logical consistency is sorely deficient.  You can debate us, but you'd better actually have some solid facts and reasonable inferences to draw.


[ Parent ]
More Conservative Lies (Cracker Want A Polly Edition) (4.00 / 1)
But you can't really grasp the nature of conservative lies, unless you look at how they fit together into a structure.

Consider:

- Matt said the Republican party was based on racism and bigotry. So I asked Matt why was it that Pres Bush's cabinet was the most diverse ever in American history while President Clinton's cabinet was almost exclusively white and male.

First, this is just a blatant lie.  Clinton was the president who broke decisively with Rotary Club cabinet model.  Bush was playing catch-up for the Republicans.

Clinton cabinet members right here.

Clinton started off with white men in 7 out of 14 slots, 3 women, 2 blacks and 2 Latinos.

Second, tokenism is utterly meaningless in terms of racial attitudes.  Every smart ruling group has used co-optation to control subordinate groups.  Favored slaves were used to control the mass of slaves.  The Roman Empire routinely left local power structures intact, only with it's hand-picked puppets at the top.

Thus, even if the first lie were true, it would prove nothing, since the makeup of a cabinet is not indicative of any real powersharing.  Indeed, Republicans and conservatives have a long history of promoting unqualified tokens.  This is the flip side of their railing against affirmative action--they can't possibly imagine that liberals would want to promote qualified women and minorities, because they'd never dream of doing it themselves.

And thus we have Bush's first Secretary of Education Rod Paige, promoted because of his record in Houston at the epicenter of the "Texas miracle."  Which, it soon turned out, was the product of Enron-style book-keeping.  Oh well.

The real test is simply what your general attitudes are, and what is the impact of your policies. Well, here's an example from the California legislature in 2005:

Full story: "GOP Racism Visible In Results--CA Scorecard Shows"

Next:

- Matt said the Clinton years were "years of peace". So I asked Matt what of Bosnia and Somalia then - the so called "wars only liberals could love". Both conflicts are well documented and in fact the Balkans situation to this day is not resolved. Again, Matt chose not to answer.

Not to defend Clinton, but there was no major commitment of ground troops, and there was no significant threat of war with the US as participant.  We chose to intervene to limit the spread of violence directed at others. This contrasts quite sharply with the Bushes on either side of him (Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq).

Next:

- I mentioned that terrorism increased in scope and frequency during the Clinton years. Matt did address this point claiming that the statistics prove this false. But do they? We're talking terror attacks against US targets so let's count them up. Clinton years saw the World Trade Center (the first attack), Khobar Towers, embassies in east Africa, and USS Cole. Bush years saw 9/11 and...and...hmmmm nothing else. Clinton did nothing and emboldened terrorists to increase the bravado of their attacks, progressing from a secretive bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 to a brazen attack on a US warship in Oct of 2000. Bush acted instantly and effectively after 9/11 and we've been safe on our home turf ever since.

This is one of those "how many mistakes can you find in this picture" sorts of things, and is left as an exercise for the reader.

My advice then to you on the left is this:

Because Karl Rove hasn't explained this all well enough already!

1) Actually discuss the issues especially when right wing knuckleheads like me challenge you.

Discussing the issues and refuting right-wing talking points are two entirely different sorts of activity.

2) Stop with the constant name calling. You guys say "George Bush" more than we Conservatives do because every answer to every question on every issue you start off with "George Bush" and then segue into some loose littany of complaints and blames against the President.

It's not our fault he's the worst president ever.  You're the ones what brung him.

And besides, didnt' you guys start the trend with your Clinton obsession? I seem to remember something about how Clinton trying to go after terrorists was just "wagging the dog," and you guys weren't going to fall for it.

3) Be brave enough to admit when you are wrong (as Matt did not do this morning). And admit also who you are whether socialist, marxist, whatever.

Newt Gingrich called newspaper editors "socialists" because they didn't agree 100% with his tax-cut proposals.

Is that what you mean?  Parrot your lies for you?

Sorry, just because cracker want a Polly doesn't mean he's going to get one!

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Mike Waltner (0.00 / 0)
I agree - Howie Klein does excellent work, which is why I have such a hard time why Blue America would abandon the Democrats to support a non-viable candidate, when there's a viable progressive Democrat like Waltner in the race. I know they supported Porter last time around, but that was in the absence of better options. This time, there is an excellent option available, and that's who they should be backing.

*hard time understanding (0.00 / 0)
n/t

[ Parent ]
Worth Checking Out (0.00 / 0)
I agree, fantastic post. Thank you!

I met Mike Waltner at an event a few weeks ago was thoroughly impressed. He is definitely a candidate worth watching. He seems fully informed on the issues and his progressive stands really feel like a fresh breeze in the stuffy Democratic climate.

I particularly like his views on campaign finance reform. It seems like he truly cares about dealing with the problems as opposed to focusing on being a politician.

His horizon also seems broader than that of some of the other candidates who remain focused on very local issues. Voters need to remember that with the right people in place, positive change also comes from Washington D.C., not just within the State.


[ Parent ]
In any case (0.00 / 0)
I think we are all in agreement that endorsing donkey-punching candidates in PA or elsewhere when there are perfectly viable candidates running on the ticket is a terrible idea. Porter and those that support him need to face the reality that their presence draws much needed funds, attention, and votes away from those that have the ability to bring down their common opponents.

It's this kind of voluntary divisions in the party that allow Republicans to laugh all the way to the bank. If Porter really wants to make a difference in the district, he'll throw his support behind Mike Waltner, since it appears he's got the best shot. Dividing the liberal vote will undoubtedly lead to another Republican victory.


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